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Sunday, January 4, 2009 12:00 AM

Orwell, blinding tribalism, selective Terrorism, and Israel/Gaza

Extreme emotional and cultural identification with one side leads people to believe that X is good when done by them and evil when done to them.

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Sunday, January 4, 2009 06:29 AM

tomreedoon

Seemingly by your own analysis we, too, are condemned as less than human (if, as I take it, you are an American--for we have an unrelently violent history with the indigenous peoples of the continent, and anyone else who has ever stood in our way). So by what you say, only some vanishingly small subset of Europeans (which ones?) and those who follow their role model are truly human. Perhaps we should all just go and slit our own throats and get it over with.

I refuse to give up the hope of the potential for humanity in all of us. Its the only gamble worth taking, it seems to me. I would rather go down in defeat and die then to live at the expense of my own or others humanity. Some victories are not worth the cost.

Sunday, January 4, 2009 06:30 AM

Bravo

Superb writing Glenn! Thanks for pointing out the underlying psychosis involved in justifying, even reveling, in the murder of innocent people. The territorial and tribal instincts that (perhaps) helped our species survive in the stone age have no place in a modern society. It seems that some of us have arrived at the place where mutual respect and compassion are seen as virtues well ahead of many of the people we currently share the planet with. Unfortunately, too many of those in power suffer from stunted psychological evolution.

Sunday, January 4, 2009 06:34 AM

Far too many letter writers ...

Far too many letter writers in such a short time here establish Glenn's basic thesis (of blinding tribalism and selective Terrorism). Thanks Glenn for your work, and for providing one sane and rational outpost in this wilderness.

Sunday, January 4, 2009 06:34 AM

@ Klytus

I know thatnit is not a black and white, jew or muslim situation. But I will cal it as I see (and believe me, I make sure I read a wide range of writers on this highly emotional matter)one cannot justify the aparthied system that is imposed in the state of israel.

Let's imagine that the exact same set of condition was applied to a non muslim people, what would the world say? I cannot condone Hamas and I do not but I also cannot help the part of me that wishes that they more than hold their own against the IDF because it seems to me, in this struggle, that David is resides in the Gaza strip.

Sunday, January 4, 2009 06:35 AM

Actually Palestinians are more like a virus....

That, of course, is the very same logic that leads Hamas to send suicide bombers to slaughter Israeli teenagers in pizza parlors and on buses. ...
....And it's the logic that leads infinitely weak and deranged people like Goldfarb and Peretz to find value in the killing of innocent Palestinians, including -- one might say, at least in Goldfarb's case: especially -- children.

Sorry bud, but agressors in any conflict set the rules of engagement. That would be Hamas. It would be more constructive to lecture them, rather than blaming the victims.

It's certainly possible to support the Israeli offensive despite the deaths of these civilians, to truly lament the suffering of innocent Palestinians but still find the war, on balance, to be justifiable.

What weaseling. I sense a "Kumbaya", or "can't we all get along" in the offing.

Or, as Goldfarb put it: "it's not clear that they are rational, at least not like us."....
....So many of these conflicts -- one might say almost all of them -- end up shaped by the same virtually universal deficiency: excessive tribalistic identification

Goldfarb got it right. The duly elected Palestinian leadership isn't rational. They wish the extermination of Israel and will literally kill themselves to further that goal. They are rabid, in that desire. There is no possible way to negotiate with irrational and aggressive tribes. The only solution is conquer the country and replace it's leadership.

People like you offering justifications for that irrationality aren't helping, you're just making it worse by implying the Palestinians have reason to behave badly. Why not highlight the genocidal aspect of Hamas against Israel? Make them defend their killing. And no, penning up rabid animals to keep those outside the pen safe from attack is not justification for trying to exterminate Israel.

Sunday, January 4, 2009 06:39 AM

Glenn,

I wonder how many parallels can be drawn between the Jews in the Warsaw ghetto during the late thirties/forties and Palestinians in Gaza now?

Both groups were en blockade, with precious supplies withheld over years, little water and less fuel. Neither had effective jobs available and each suffered continuous invasions by their tormenters.

At least the Nazis lasted a mere few years compared to the ceaseless deprecations wrought by those very descendants of those Warsaw Jews for decades upon the ghetto that is Gaza.

Sunday, January 4, 2009 06:41 AM

Yes, Glenn, but you're using Orwell wrong

You see, all the things that Orwell wrote as non-fiction like his journalism and essays, well, people shouldn't read them because they don't help out toward Victory.

That's why we only want people reading 1984 and Animal Farm and we tell them that the books are just about how bad Communism is and that's really all there is to it.

And don't pay any attention to those people who point out that Orwell's model for NewSpeak in 1984 was none other than the proposed rules of language bandied about while Orwell was a wartime broadcaster to India for the BBC.

For god's sake, we don't want people reading the crazy Orwell as depicted in the Collected Essays, Journalism, and Letters as edited by Sonia Orwell.

http://tinyurl.com/Orwell-Collected

People could hear all sorts of dangerous, anti-tribal talk.

They might even learn that Orwell, unlike Hitchens might prefer, is no cheap, chest-beating "contrarian" out to kill the barbarians all the time, but quite motivated by basic decency and humanitarian concerns.

So don't read any of that Orwell. Stick to the good Orwell, who can Help Keep Us Safe.

Sunday, January 4, 2009 06:45 AM

@Sulzer4444

How is Israel not "a group of people funded by other countries looking to destabilize the area"?

Sunday, January 4, 2009 06:45 AM

is there a solution

the seed for the continuation of this strife goes back to the day israel was established in the land in 1948'i would it thought they would progress with equal justice for all for those living in the land. but fear and other things as prevented those changes to take place. failing to overcome difference as lead to the present situation .and the growth of more animiosity the palistinians by instigating the israelites will never attain what they desire, and the israelites will never attain by force what they want.history is always in the making nothing stays still or remains the same.the present situation will lead to the birth of more strife and a new set of situation to deal with. till the man of peace will come to the scene and then as as been written will be a time of tribulation and unless those they were shortened no one would survive.

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