Police officers, ambulances, and Fire Department are examples of private citizens, who through the course of performing public services at their jobs sometimes do not obey traffic signals.

happy new year, Kitt.

vv

For example, the one about whether an ancient creation myth should be given equal weight to a scientific theory. Some things are truly idiotic and should be identified as such.

The JBS has been against the war in Iraq from the outset, as well as against the Patriot Act, torture, etc., etc. They may be wacky about some stuff, but they've been very righteous on these issues. Hard to imagine a world in which Jane Hamsher agrees with John Birch Soc., but there you have it -- strange bedfellows, indeed.

-- Svensker

[Read Svensker's other letters]

Hi Svensker...I didn't know this about them until I ran across this article today. Evidently I missed this if it was posted on Firedoglake but I'm not surprised that Jane found out about it before I did!

I'd love to see a list of all of the people on the right and in the center that have written pieces critical of the Bush war criminals. I'm familiar with Bruce Fein, the Cato Institute and a few others but I'd really like to see more of them.

pmorlan

The Birch Society Article is surprisingly spot on. I find that to be encouraging.

-- Kitt

Kitt - I was encouraged as well. I'm really sick of people like Ruth Marcus trying to downplay the outcry in this country about holding the Bush administration war criminals accountable by constantly pretending that it's only the "left" who cares about this issue so everyone else should ignore it. I make it a point whenever I can to post links to as many right leaning articles critical of the Bush torture regime as I can just so that people know that it's not a political issue reserved for lefties. I feel when you do this it's not as easy for them to fool people who might not be up to speed on this issue. I hope others will start doing this or continue doing it if they are already doing so. I think it makes a real difference.

The JBS has been against the war in Iraq from the outset, as well as against the Patriot Act, torture, etc., etc. They may be wacky about some stuff, but they've been very righteous on these issues. Hard to imagine a world in which Jane Hamsher agrees with John Birch Soc., but there you have it -- strange bedfellows, indeed.

The Birch Society Article is surprisingly spot on. I find that to be encouraging.

@Kitt

That was sarcasm....

-- Vox Vocis res Publica

No it wasn't. You proposed the question about stop lights. I quoted your proposal. My question was as completely reasonable and as sincere as it could be. If you can answer that question go ahead. If not, don't. But, as I said, it was a completely reasonable question.

Ooops...I forgot to post a link to the Birch Society article.

Mainstream Media’s Moral Meltdown

http://www.jbs.org/index.php/jbs-news-feed/4311

I ran across an article critical of the media's response to the Bush administration's crimes, from of all places, the John Birch Society. I just posted it in the comments section of the Ruth Marcus article that Glenn referenced in this post. They too single out Ms. Marcus for her writing. I guess now Ms. Marcus won't be able to pretend that only those on the left care about this issue.

That was sarcasm.....Happy New Year.

vv

The point, I think, is that there aren't two REASONABLE sides to every dispute. To many disputes there may be, but certainly not to EVERY dispute.

Thanks for the comment. To try and answer, I would expect there to be debate on every issue in order to keep us from becoming to absolute on any one issue. Without debate, what do we have? Tyranny possibly?

I would not try to defend such horrible things like torture although I might be able to dream up some situations (if I try hard enough...:)) that should be open for debate.

As a former auditor, I don't really believe in absolutes on political issues. I do believe in absolutes for things like mathematics,etc...

I just think absolutes lead people down paths they should not take eventually.

Those are just my thought.

Happy New Year you also. Thanks,

vv

The Constitutional prohibition on cruel and unusual punishment applies equally to commenters with Latin screen names. Are there "two sides" to that proposition? Do I have to give consideration to its converse in order to be "open minded"?

If your statement is true then what is the answer to[...] intersection stoplights....

-- Vox Vocis res Publica

Unless you think there is two sides to a debate about whether or not it would be acceptable if some people obey intersection stoplights while others do not, then you have answered your own inquiry, as faulty as it was.

Glenn,

Just one last note, what about our legal system that you were once a part of? Isn't the fact that we have a system of justice based on opposing views with a judge or jury to decide truth or guilt and innocence prove that we, as a society, do in fact believe there are two sides to every issue?

Just food for thought,

Happy New Year!

vv

....surely there must be room for debate on every issue.

VV,

Since you posted your question in comments, I'm assuming you wish to discuss it with all of us. Otherwise, if it was intended as a private communication, I'd have expected you to have emailed it directly to Glenn.

To the substance of your question, then... why must there be room for debate on every issue? Is there room for debate, in your mind, as to whether the person who comments under the name "Vox Vocis res Publica" should have the right of freedom of speech, or of assembly? Is the question of whether you shuld be tortured or not something that is open to debate? I'm not asking whether you can defend those abstract concepts in debate - anyone should, of course, given adequate wit and the time and motivation to do so - but whether you think there are two reasonable propositions of equal value on either side of the issue.

If not, why is the first amendment worth anything or the press? And who is to say which issues there are not to sides to? You, me, who?

These questions make me think you have a profound misunderstanding of what Glenn was referring to. Maybe you could help me by talking about the assumptions that underly such questions.

Again, if you intended your question to be for Glenn alone, please send an email to GGreenwald@salon.com.

Happy New Year.