Letters posted here are associated with the following article:

466
Letters
Thursday, December 4, 2008 12:00 AM

Why do Feinstein and Wyden sound much different on the torture issue now?

The two Senators spent the year emphatically insisting that the CIA's interrogators comply with the Army Field Manual. With Democrats in control, they're not so emphatic any longer

The letters thread is now closed.

View:
Friday, December 5, 2008 09:41 AM

O! Jebbie

Why do your videos never depict the torturing and sexual humiliation of trolls?

Shall I forever be disappointed?

Friday, December 5, 2008 09:51 AM

Switch and Bait on AFM

The Army Field Manual has an appendix -- Appendix M -- which allows "touchless" forms of torture such as isolation, sleep deprivation, "fear up harsh", and perceptual deprivation. The fact some of these techniques may need "approval" does not change their coercive and inhumane aspect. In fact, they constitute the core coercive program of Guantanamo, now enshrined in the AFM for "enemy combatants".

Therefore, a portion of the AFM is in violation of Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions, if not the UN Convention on Torture.

Glenn, I'm surprised you have not seen this. For all readers, a discussion of these issues, including a discussion with Physicians for Human Rights on this issue, can be found at:

http://www.neverinournames.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=391 and http://valtinsblog.blogspot.com/2008/02/wages-of-fear-what-waterboarding-debate.html

Appendix M (and the full AFM) can be read at this link:

http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm2-22-3.pdf

Don't fall for the bait and switch on the AFM. The CIA may ask for more, but they can live with the AFM as constituted. It is not that far different than the style of psychological torture they developed in the KUBARK interrogation manual, and causes lasting psychological harm to prisoners.

Friday, December 5, 2008 09:54 AM

Gordon Ginsburg. A mule a gallops a piaffe... No Mess up the tread.

No Kings. O ondelette, Ya! I agree. Please stop over with the Happy Ear Caps.

Yes! GG. Be Mickey Mouse? Toss 2- slippery yellow banana peels on my porch.

The Gordon Ginsburg GG?!. It sounds silly, and it just may be, but in fact, GG's 2.

2- GG's. One Lawyer GG, and the other really fun commenter GG. Ay! Is a Gordon G.

I like 2- GG's.

I annoy 1- GG.

okay. Banana's.

Slippery slopes.

No break b-hinds.

Sacroiliac crack sacrum.

Guest. I hope thee 2, slip?

No, no toss a banana peel.

Ask? Stop for the ice cream.

Jebbie. And a Miller HighLife.

Beer? Green chip pistachio floats.

Friday, December 5, 2008 09:57 AM

Jebbie's

special Friday Bonus video FTW.

(see link at his sig)

Friday, December 5, 2008 09:58 AM

Oh!, Baldie

"Why do your videos never depict the torturing and sexual humiliation of trolls? Shall I forever be disappointed?"

-- Baldie McEagle

Probably.

I could probably round up something having to do with screwing leprechauns but that would upset the faerie contingent around these parts so that can't be done. Mona would kick my ass.

Maybe I could find some stock video of our Boy Hornetdriver dropping his load on an Afghan wedding party. Would that take care of your immediate needs?

Friday, December 5, 2008 10:00 AM

@ Baldie

Why do your videos never depict the torturing and sexual humiliation of trolls?

Well, listening to Ringo Starr's drumming is pretty damn painful. ;O

Friday, December 5, 2008 10:02 AM

BankRobbaz'R'Us speaks out

All this sudden talk of exceptions and "special measures" and new, secret guidelines do nothing but cloud an issue where absolute clarity is most needed.

And bank robbery ought to be categorically and completely banned ... unless and until we really, really need the money....

Cheers,

Friday, December 5, 2008 10:20 AM

No, omooex, I said that

no amount of "specifics" would satisfy the questioners of the need to rise.

Adnoto, her-u, others including me, have provided a litany of "specifics" -- actions to take, or ones already taken -- in direct opposition (as opposed to purely political opposition) to the consolidation of corporate/imperialist autocracy.

That is what the struggle is against, isn't it? Or maybe not.

Some people -- some of them on the Left, odd though it sounds -- are happy enough with the consolidation of a torture state under autocratic rule. They see no reason to rise at all.

Or they want torture gone, but the autocracy can stay. Self governing constitutional republics are such a bother anyway.

Imperialism is the Best. Corporatism is the Best. Especially when people who are banging on the gates of the Palace are let in. As now and then they are.

I'm not much in to manifestos. I had hopes Glenn would give it a shot, being as that he is a dynamite polemicist and is becoming more radicalized by the day. But still there is the resistance to going that far, potentially triggering something beyond the standard fare: phoning, faxing, voting, giving money to candidates and causes. Anything more than that is potentially dangerous.

But others have mentioned specifics like: stop paying bills, stop paying taxes, refuse to follow authorities' directives, conduct general strikes, block roadways, interfere with the comfort and convenience of officials, etc., etc. There's nothing new about any of this; it's standard kit bag stuff of revolt which could turn into revolution.

Trouble is that these specifics that have been cited here and elsewhere over and over and over again are not "enough" for those who question the call to action. What I'm saying is that nothing is enough to satisfy the skeptics of direct action, no litany of specifics will satisfy them. It's a game. The brass ring is always out of reach.

If Americans would do anything at all in opposition to the consolidation of the Autocracy, that consolidation would be delayed, potentially stopped or even reversed. But they aren't doing anything about it, and for my money, they're not going to. Manifesti and polemics or no.

When the Bushevik Regime was new and weak and fragile, THAT's when fighting back might have made a huge difference at relatively slight cost. Now? They've had years to consolidate their objectives -- with the active assistance, don't forget, of the entire political class -- and it's really too late to do anything about it easily or through regular channels.

So how do you oppose it now?

From my admittedly cramped perspective, you have to do it from the local level. That means in some ways establishing small scale independence -- bigger than the individual or family or clan, but smaller than the state, and vastly smaller than the Nation and its Empire.

The country is too big. A self-governing constitutional republic as envisioned or idealized by the Founders turns into Autocracy (as we are seeing) as a function of scale. The Founders' republic was small and the constituent parts were much smaller still; small scale and relative isolation were fundamentals to the early republic, and as they were lost, so were the threads of constitutional self-government, so that today, they have become quaint relics memorialized on a "goddamn piece of paper." Ignored by practically everyone.

So, if we really want it revived and transformed for today, we've got to do something about the scale issue, and we've got to engineer (small-scale) independence from Versailles on the Potomac.

I'm feeling all Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young about now...

And we got to get ourselves back to the gaaaarddden..."

Most Active Letters Threads

438

The Washington establishment suffers a serious defeat

Approval of the Paul/Grayson bill to audit the Fed is both rare and important in several ways
415

The administration guts its own argument for 9/11 trials

If some detainees get military commissions or indefinite detention, how can 9/11 trials be justified?
245

Rule-of-law extremism engulfs primitive Eastern Europe

Why would the new President of Lithuania demand investigations of CIA black sites in her country?
226

A letter to readers

On my current condition: Definitely treatable, definitely uncertain
179

More GOP lies about healthcare reform

Republicans who know better falsely claim that the panel recommending fewer mammograms is a Dem plan for rationing

View all »

Letters Help

Currently in Salon