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Sunday, Nov 8, 2009
They been watching that "24" garbage. Maybe that's the problem.
One difference for those old programs you mention is that they are fictional portrayals of the "wild West", where it is known that there is no law. In fact, Marshall Dillon is brought in to be "the law", and from my recollections of the program, it seems he often did what he could to move things away from vigilantism to more law-based behavior. This discussion, of course, then gives further perspective on Bush's "dead or alive" language where he intentionally tried to move us back to the "wild West" mentality of there being no laws.
I've also seen suggestions that the "Dirty Harry" series pioneered the modern concept of the authority figure who has a disdain for the niceties of the law. I'd like to see Hollywood move now to a new era of hero who finds that laws are actually good things that work in society's favor. Bringing back the hero who obtains information from the prisoner of war through treatment with respect or the police officer who intervenes to prevent abuse of a prisoner by an out of control partner would be a good move for our society.
Torture is ONLY a bad thing when Republicans do it, apparently.
So much for honesty and integrity in the Senate.
will take the lead on this issue. How ironic would that be?
Meanwhile all those people who were so fired up about this election need to get off their fannies and start acting like real citizens by contacting Congress, writing (well-reasoned, fact-based) letters to media outlets, etc. Until we all hold their collective feet to the fire, nothing will change. Democracy is not a spectator sport, people.
Several members of Congress, such as Rush Holt, have called on Obama not to wait for Congress to act and, instead, to immediately issue an Executive Order compelling government-wide compliance with the Army Field Manual. Obama should do that. But, as Holt recognizes, this is really an area where Congress can and must legislate.
How could Obama do that when he's not president yet? Unless you mean immediately after he is inaugurated, then we will then have no choice but to wait...
for highlighting this. Our leaders seem to constantly miss the most basic points about being an effective leader (i.e. one in tune with reality--the real point about torture is how it defeats itself and destroys those who use it. A true pragmatist would run from the use of torture like from a clearly evident disaster just waiting to happen):
I have three treasures
To maintain and conserve:
The first is compassion.
The second if frugality.
The third is not presuming
To be the first under heaven.
Nowadays
People reject compassion
But want to be brave,
Reject frugality
But want to be generous,
Reject humility
And want to come first.
This is death.
Compassion:
Attack with it and win.
Defend with it and stand firm.
Heaven aids and protects
Through compassion.
The accomplished person is not aggressive.
The good soldier is not hot-tempered.
The best conqueror does not engage the enemy.
The most effective leader takes the lowest place.
This is called the integrity of not contending.
This is called the power of the leader.
This is called matching Heaven’s ideal. (Tao Te Ching 68)
There is no disaster greater than
Contempt for the enemy.
Contempt for the enemy—
What a treasure lost!
Therefore,
When the fighting gets hot,
Those who grieve will conquer. (TTC 69)
When many people are killed
We feel sorrow and grief.
A great victory
Is a funeral ceremony. (TTC 31)
Requiring the CIA or any other gestapo organization of the US government to follow the Army Field Manual is a bad idea. Why? Because it is a (relatively) simple thing for the Pentagon to change the manual or add a "classified" addendum. Instead of simply requiring the obeying of the Field Manual, they should spell out what the Field Manual says NOW without any secret shit added onto it, without any changes, and hold them ALL to that standard so that nothing in the Field Manual CAN change or be modified.
Senator Feinstein is rotten. She's coasted on her illiberality for years, looking "good" only because the Republicans have been so very bad.
The torture issue is so huge, so unsavory, so corrosive of our country's politics and at least perceived moral standing. Maybe there needs to be a Torture Subcommittee in Congress to ensure that our "enhanced interrogation techniques" are properly applied. Wouldn't want to have an ineffective waterboarding failing to yield information, or accidentally drowning a victim of it.
What really sucks about our country's compromised stance on torture is the blazing hypocrisy that'll be ours when Americans are tortured -- we won't be able to offer much in the way of complaint without looking like complete jackasses.
If we're unwilling to have "enhanced interrogation techniques" applied to Americans, we shouldn't be inflicting them on others. And if we're unwilling to abandon torture as a part of our official policy, we can't complain when it comes back to haunt us. Shame on Feinstein and Wyden, shame on our country if we continue to use torture.
We can thank her for approving all of Bush's most right wing reactionary judges too!
There must be "flexibility" in "extreme cases." What, for example, would you propose if the Mumbai attacks had happened here, one terrorist was captured during the attacks, the full extent of the attacks was unknown, the attacks were ongoing, and the captured terrorist was unwilling to reveal what he knew? Or what if we had captured one of the 9/11 terrorists on the morning of the attacks but before the airplanes were hijacked?
"Extreme measures" must be a last resort for cases of imminent and catastrophic threat. What those "extreme measures" ought to be depends, I think, on a realistic assessment of what works to secure critical information immediately. Protecting the nation and its citizens is the first priority for any country. You can never say never.
There just aren't enough of them yet. We just need a few more Democrats in office and the United States of America will stop torturing people.
Much of the initial coverage about Fort Hood turned out to be wrong. Is there anything wrong with that?
The accountability imposed by another country for the CIA's kidnapping and torture reveals much about our own.
Fox News' morning show plays to type, talking about whether Muslims in the Army should face "special debriefings"
The survivor and author is upset about comparisons some on the right are making to genocide
Once seen as a lunatic fringe, reactionary anti-women groups are courting respectability
Salon headlines in your mailbox
