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Sunday, Nov 8, 2009
I've only skimmed your current postSo forgive me if I'm off base but the main justification that I can come up with for backing off the "Field Manual" language is that the Field manual is not classified and can therefore be trained against.
Wasn't the same thing true all year when Feinstein and Wyden were so flamboyantly demanding a law to compel the CIA's compliance with it? Yes, it was. Did they just have an epiphany within the last couple of weeks about this?
Also, I don't agree with your argument. Yes, the laws can be public and transparent. But the CIA is still free to develop secret techniques within those laws.
The military does it. Countless intelligence professionals -- professional interrogators -- say that they can effectively interrogate within the confines of the public Army Field Manual. You're conflating the legal guidelines which are public (the Army Field Manual) with the tactics that need not be.
Perhaps I'm being naively optimistic but I happen to believe that its possible to write a law that will effectively outlaw torture while providing interrogators with the comfort of knowing that their captors aren't sure what they're facing.
The problem isn't only about what interrogators do. It's about the statement we make to the world. Adopting secret laws and telling the world to Trust Us -- that the secret guidelines we're promulgating are good and fair -- send exactly the wrong message, especially after the last 8 years.
I would love to see Army Major General Antonio M. Taguba
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/06/25/070625fa_fact_hersh?printable=true
and Former Navy Counsel Alberto Mora
http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?060227fa_fact
in some high positions in the Obama Administration where their courage and ethics can be put to use for the good of our country.
Some time back Atrios summarized the stupidity of the ticking time-bomb thesis by being, dare I say, "pragmatic"... IIRC, the point was you don't need to legislate for a ticking time-bomb scenario because no-one will ever prosecute a real-life Jack Bauer.
The problem with legislating for a ticking time-bomb scenario is that it directs intelligence officers to treat every situation as if there were a ticking time-bomb, and thus abuse every captive because their orders and training allow for this to occur.
I'll say it again: don't be surprised as America continues its long slow slide into fascism in all but name.
Under Obama and the Democrats, torture will continue, and probably increase. Privacy rights will continue to erode. Governmental secrecy will increase, except in meaningless, superficial ways ("Look! This shiny new government website lets you see some documents that mean nothing and look important! Give us your feedback, and we'll send you a form-letter of thanks!").
The Democrats were possibly the most feeble and pathetic "opposition" party in history, even when they were in the majority. Anyone who thinks that they will now bravely stand up for basic American principles is just fooling themselves.
Some day, if we're lucky, we'll all be shocked - shocked! - to discover that governmental power has been abused in whole new ways that we never imagined. Except by the civil libertarians on the "fringe" whose warnings were constantly ignored by the media, of course. But who listens to them?
Bush/Cheney are a symptom, not the cause of America's decline. The cause is voter ignorance and apathy, encouraged by the media, the degradation of the public education system, and the long breakdown of unofficial local social support systems - neighborhoods, in other words, and extended families. Americans are increasingly isolated from each other, and this makes them passive, helpless, and numb.
Technology has been a major factor in this slow-motion social collapse; improved travel technology has scattered families to the winds, while television provides endless mindless entertainment. Every moment of life is precious; once gone, it's gone forever. Yet the vast majority of America - 80 percent? Ninety? More? - spend virtually all their free time in front of the TV. Walk through any town, any city, anywhere in America some evening. You'll see that unmistakable pale blue glow from almost every house that announces to the world that The TV Is On.
And a lifetime spent watching TV gets you...what, exactly?
Our rampant consumer culture, rooted in the all-encompassing greed of ever-larger corporations, has reduced virtually everything to dollars and cents. Speak out against even the most extreme corporate crimes, and a gaggle of idiots is sure to spring up claiming that the profit motive excuses all. People have forgotten that we are all human beings, not just economic units of consumption and production! But assertions of the value of humanity are now passé, and seem vaguely comic and old-fashioned.
I wish I saw a way out of this tragedy, but I don't. The collapse seems inevitable, and I do not see any sign that our new leaders have any inclination to change the direction we're heading in; they're just going to change how they talk about our descent into destruction. And they'll make a few cosmetic changes to distract us from the truth: America is almost certainly headed towards complete social and economic collapse. The current economic crisis is just another small foreshadowing of what's to come.
When the real crash comes, the shock will be immense. At that point, the people will desperately throw every right out the window and eagerly follow whatever dictator makes the most attractive promises. Which won't be kept, of course; they'll just be another temporary distraction while the remaining elite picks the nation's bones.
I would like to believe that after the collapse, there will be some sort of chance for redemption, some way for a better world to come to pass. But if such a possibility exists, I can't see it.
Can no on in California rid us of this woman? From telecom immunity to torture she's a naked shill for lawlessness and greed. We voted in record numbers to get RID of people like this.
My God, nothing is ever going to change is it? These people aren't going to be content until the United States is in flames and everything we once stood for is held up to deserved ridicule as being a baseless lie.
Much of the initial coverage about Fort Hood turned out to be wrong. Is there anything wrong with that?
The accountability imposed by another country for the CIA's kidnapping and torture reveals much about our own.
Fox News' morning show plays to type, talking about whether Muslims in the Army should face "special debriefings"
The survivor and author is upset about comparisons some on the right are making to genocide
Once seen as a lunatic fringe, reactionary anti-women groups are courting respectability
Salon headlines in your mailbox
