You lose, you get nothing, good day to you sir.

I really like that line.

bamage: see? I told you Derbig and weren't one and the same! He's still my papa-daddy even if he's angry with me.

Q: Would you cut your leg off, with a hacksaw, if it meant finding a cure for cancer.

Q: Would you dismember your mother, or spouse, or child, to point of death if it meant solving global warming and the certain rescue of the human race.

These are questions anyone can answer for him/herself as a moral/ethical exercise, but they have no relation whatsoever to the current practice of torture here or elsewhere in the world. They are totally unrelated questions.

Read Alexander's WaPo OpEd before arguing bullshit "what if" Jack Bauer hypotheticals.

The reality is simple. Valid and reliable information can be obtained quickly without illegally torturing prisoners and torturing people pisses other people off and gives extremists a great recruiting tool.

Hence one of the reasons why Michael Scheuer claims the US is marching to the drum of Bin Laden and going down the "dark" road to hell, which is exactly what AQ wants.

To realize that your side is just as full of shit as the other side. I doubt this will be your last such article in the next 4-8 years.

Anyone that supports, aids, abets or causes state-sponsored torture is an enemy of the United States, its Constitution and its laws and treaties and should be dealt with as such.

Glenn, I have to agree with the Senator's assistant. She clearly stated that the Army Field Manual in its present form is the best standard available to ensure legal compliance for interrogations. However, she did note that the Manual could be altered by Executive Order [I'm surprised it is that simple] which could leave a loophole for another Bush or Cheney to incorporate techniques which could be called torture. She indicated that legislating a standard would be more effective and more difficult [uhh maybe not] to change. Especially by the Executive Branch.

I guess it all depends on what is in the legislation and what loopholes are left for interrogators to utilize. Another concern might be whether the the legislation is unclassified and able to be available and clearly understood.

Stings, doesn't it? To realize that your side is just as full of shit as the other side. I doubt this will be your last such article in the next 4-8 years.

What stings? "Your side"? Which side is that? As for your screen name, aeschylus, I can only conclude that if the original "is often recognized as the father or the founder of tragedy" (courtesy Wikipedia), you shame his legacy.

Glenn, I have to agree with the Senator's assistant. She clearly stated that the Army Field Manual in its present form is the best standard available to ensure legal compliance for interrogations. However, she did note that the Manual could be altered by Executive Order [I'm surprised it is that simple] which could leave a loophole for another Bush or Cheney to incorporate techniques which could be called torture. She indicated that legislating a standard would be more effective and more difficult [uhh maybe not] to change. Especially by the Executive Branch.

Then why did Wyden spend the year -- before Obama was elected -- advocating that the law be changed to use the Army Field Manual as the standard?

If -- as you claim -- using the Army Field Manual as a standard is a bad idea because it "could leave a loophole for another Bush or Cheney to incorporate techniques which could be called torture," why did Wyden advocate exactly that when Bush and Cheney were in office?

Nobody was cooler than Wilder's Wonka. "The suspense is terrible... I hope it'll last."

"Jebbie - Here's Yerrrr Boy wbgonne is a troll.

Ignore."-- Retzilian

Think so?

All the same, I believe I shall hang loose for a little longer before bestowing the ToD Honor upon anyone. I've jumped the gun a couple of times of late and, lo and behold, as soon as I committed to someone, someone worse came riding in on their black horse and made the whole exercise academic.

I can remember, years ago, getting thrown out of the state park at Put in Bay for allegedly making too much noise after curfew. I was not guilty!

It's very difficult, however, to impress upon a member of the law enforcement community that you were not guilty of making noise simply because you tend to "become quiet and reserved" while under the influence of marijuana and thus, we were forced to move the Winnibago (at great risk to the general public, I might add) in the middle of the night.

Have you ever seen people doing the Camel with Two Backs while astride one of the canons in the park on PiB?

I'm told that it's quite an interesting sight to behold and an even more interesting act to perform, but of course, I wouldn't know for sure. Mona might know.

When did your river go out?

Senators don't characteristically make statements like Feinstein and Wyden did without checking this out with their party leadership. Consider the way that Feinstein worded her comments - "I recognize that there are other views, and I am willing to work with the new administration to consider them."

Why would she say this and say it this way unless she had been given indications from the Obama team that they wanted to keep their options open to go beyond the Army Field Manual (i.e., torture and preventively detain)? Why would she be "willing to work with the new administration to consider them" unless that administration itself had told her they wanted to preserve some of the egregious practices that the Bush White House has become internationally infamous for?

In case they missed it:

information gleaned from ethical interrogations enabled the killing of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi

and...

We turned several hard cases, including some foreign fighters, by using our new techniques. A few of them never abandoned the jihadist cause but still gave up critical information. One actually told me, "I thought you would torture me, and when you didn't, I decided that everything I was told about Americans was wrong. That's why I decided to cooperate."

and...

I learned in Iraq that the No. 1 reason foreign fighters flocked there to fight were the abuses carried out at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo. Our policy of torture was directly and swiftly recruiting fighters for al-Qaeda in Iraq.

But yet the cheerleaders will still rah rah rah for it... Anyone who still advocates torture and enhanced interrogation is nothing but a goddamn moron that needs to wake up and get informed. Period.