This from a politician of a few years back:

"Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take but as for me; give me liberty or give me death!"

At the time he was considered a patriot. Now, probably, not so much, but rather more like a nutjob from the radical fringe.

Also, to the "We Obamabots wuz fooled by teh Obama Aid" eedjuts. Ok, we get it, GOP = Dem, we live in a diktatorship, they're all the same, it's all a shell game, we're fools who keep getting conned, only La Revolucion will save us all, which can only happen after The Complete And Total Collapse Of A 100% Corrupt System, blah blah blah.

Now please just go kindly fuck yourselves, you tiresome and useless little 15 year old Holden Caufieldesque trolls who frankly have nothing useful to add to any serious discussion about anything. Don't you have Very Important Newsletters to disseminate to Those Who Know?

As per the usual scenario, you have a suspect in custody and a bomb is expected to go off soon in a known location.

Step 1: Turn on a closed circuit display of the expected target zone. Zero in on as many individual faces of the "innocents" as possible. Discuss what daily business they might be conducting and what family members will feel once they're gone.

If this isn't successful, would you go to a Step 2 of informing the suspect that one of their family members has been located and moved to the target zone? If so, would you actually move the person there, or just say you did?

Calling Jkalos and/or ethics professor to the courtesy phone, please. I think I would arrive at saying I moved the family member but wouldn't actually do it.

would not = torture so whatever is being considered torture is not it.

for what we believe in. Period. End of sentence.

So, I'm willing to take my chances with the "terr-ists" because I don't have much fear of them. I'm not all that scared to die, for one thing, and for another, I'd rather die than live in a police state.

If we can't die for our principles, if we cannot believe in something big enough to die for (like our country, when it's right), then what's the point? We might as well live in Russia.

That's what sets us apart; or what did. If our congresspeople are so lilly livered, I guess they need replacing.

As far as I'm concerned, there is no debate. This is a black and white issue. I do not buy into any of this national security crap, I resent having to take off my shoes at the airport and carry little bottles of shampoo in a baggie. It's BS. I'd rather take my chances with a hijacker.

Your mileage may vary.

"if the Mumbai attacks had happened here, one terrorist was captured during the attacks, the full extent of the attacks was unknown, the attacks were ongoing, and the captured terrorist was unwilling to reveal what he knew?"

The terrorists in Mumbai, like most all the rest, were on a suicide mission. They were'nt just prepared to die for their cause, they were determined to die. What likelihood is there that someone at that mindset is going to give any, much less useful info because they are being tortured?

Terrorist attack thwarting heroes, Jack Bauer, and war heroes are TV and movie fallacies.

Hey bartender over here

Two more shots

And two more beers

Sir turn up the TV sound

The war has started on the ground

Just love those laser guided bombs

They're really great

For righting wrongs

You hit the target

And win the game

From bars 3,000 miles away

"Senator Ron Wyden of Oregon ... said he would consult with the C.I.A. and approve interrogation techniques that went beyond the Army Field Manual as long as they were 'legal, humane and noncoercive.'"

Can anyone explain why one would bother implementing noncoercive interrogation techniques that go beyond the Army Field Manual? What's the point? Has the CIA been successful in inventing harsher techniques that are noncoercive? Has the Army been slacking off in this department, and is their field manual not creative enough? WTF?

One knew a teacher memorably named John Singer Sargent. Same one?

Japanese officers were sentenced to death by US military tribunals and executed in 1945 for some of the very same methods of interrogation used by the CIA. It was called war crimes then.

I know the dozen generals and admirals are no all rotten 'eggs'. Au grates potato's served

on good china taste wonderful. No let it be the last meal. The read/comments are great. The words: "Pragmatic", the "lessons learned", and "the Army Field Manual" make me feel "pregnant"... huh. The same buzz phrases? In terms of pregnable. It's often dangerous.

When the "lower-unbathed-class" of people were shunned, the phrase: Go "box harry"

was used to refer

to: `Box.

Go fight.

Bop devil.

People were hungry, homes were foreclosed, coarse meals, a harsh roughing it. People had to live on bank credit, or,

people Starved.

Box Somebody!

Soon folk will heat pig hides for pork-broth stew. Save entrails, skins, cloven hoof feet, sinews, and add pepper. Guts, ears, tails, nutmegs, herbs, salt, and with the pestle, beat to a pulp the coriander.

Do anything to alleviate reality, and the blue melancholy moods. Thug people did go fetch a rope and a tree, O,

to hang themselves?

What a catastrophe.

Wretches never care.

To understand the word Wretch, it needs to be divested of the initial 'w'... it goes back to Saxon words: 'tch'.

It gets to a the verb-

... to 'reck'... and wretch'lessness' really mens:`Care For Nothing, and the common folk would pluck a goat by the beard before it's too late? Or, it's gonna be bad news? A `Fatalist? Hear a hungry rumbling in the belly, a human gut produces gas flatulence? Kiss-up? Gimme truths. Grumble. Ancestors had predilection? Or, do folk just sit in a pew and compound inevitable commotions, big problems, and whisper more vain murmurs? Unction? Who knows?

H.L. Mencken used a facetious neologism: `Flatuoso. He said:`It's a elegant term for people who are troubled by continual (crazy) troubled politico's. WHY. WHO isn't 'fed-up' with verbal flatulence? Gads. What disgrace. Harry Pelosi? Bad breath, gums, teeth, huh, (okay, and be nicely behaved)

And WHY buy mouthwash and more guns?

Timothy3 might google Sam Adams Beer?

Quarrelsome, irritable, and sad provoked?

Ay, to a degree? So is the medical quacks.

Ya, snarl back sarcastically at the babbles.

Mad-Fury Wod=insane? A Chaucer's word.

Act how? Pretend it's normal to act insane?

No spine, back bones, woe, authoritarian?

Recall a strangled princess: name Alkelda.

It was a 8th century, memory and honored.

The story was she was given the 'evil-eye'.

Her lovely body was slain by a water well.

Memory. Who has spoke truth + seen? Eye.

Hear the cuckoo bird in DC, in the country,

hear the wind, and the Earth's Mother beat.

People wish to Hear cuckoo when it chirps?

Liberal? Gallant. Friendship. Vice and Virtue.

Injustice, rapacity, and human natures worst?

VIOLENCE. Cruelty, arrogance, obstinate, lies.

The worst profusions of gibber and blabbers.

Affable, jolly, motley crews, and friendly bums.

Vulgar lies. Shut up. Stammer. O, so Notorious.

Unpleasant. Pick because of birth names? Gads.

So, we hear the mealy mouth who has an opinion.

Some majesty orders to kill them some day, okay?

Invite blokes to hear the band play music. Attendant.

Never invite the farmer, a legal aid attorney, beggars.

This is utter knavery. The villainous vagrants infest USA.

Worst. Snore. Plan to war. A child not yet born alive in a cradle? Drafted into horror, a Despotism. Please go attend a coronation of `this modern world: `King Sneeze of Despotism, King Monomotapa. Persons in the antechamber can salute and scream fake acclimations. Vassals by the many thousands sound a horrible cry. Say:`Gog bless you.

Cook, slut, a butler,

calm temperament,

"general virtues" Ay!

Diligence, talkative,

never bitter. wiser,

pleasant discourse.

Male/Female. skill.

Watchful. Courage.

Stout beer? Yippee.

AY, never perishing.

Quick Light-Flashes.

Merry riot. Meetings.

debunk who? Hypocrite, and those who perpetuate misconception. Ask questions. It is so foolish'est ' to go on and on like I am. Too windy. So try to be wiser, and Focus, and nothing

dejects, and dismays?

sorta, in thee final end.

apologies. incongruous,

jumble, and dare often,

to always speak wisely.

Fearless about the vital.

Address the vital issues.