Yeah, and monkeys may fly out of my butt. FDs - showing their true colors. We'll see if OS caves.

BTW, Glenn, you used "interrogation" in the first sentence where you meant (I believe) "interrogating".

I noticed during the attacks in India, as always, the media guys in the studio and the reporters on the ground interviewing authorities, are always trying to establish the exact number of civilian casualties, particularly western.

How many Iraqis have we killed? That number seems to be lost in the fog---inconsequential and unknowable.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/05/11/america/11chicago.php?page=5

"...In courting families like the Crowns, Obama was gaining entree into the upper echelon of the city's corporate boardrooms, a ripe source of campaign money. But he was also seeking to broaden his appeal to Jewish voters,..."

http://www.lib.niu.edu/1976/ii761206.html

"Yes, sir," [Lester] Crown replied. Webb also asked, "You knew . . . that payment of bribes from private industry to the General Assembly was illegal, didn't you?"..

http://www2.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/1996/11/18/BU49588.DTL&hw=assassinated&sn=009&sc=442

ON ECONOMICS: -- How Kennedy Assassination Affected Some Stock Prices

JONATHAN MARSHALL

Monday, November 18, 1996

"....But the facts speak tellingly about how accidents of history can affect great fortunes.

A postscript for assassination buffs: No individual stood to lose more from the TFX scandal than Chicago investor Henry Crown, who owned 20 percent of General Dynamics. His personal attorney, Albert Jenner, became a senior staff attorney on the Warren Commission, in charge of investigating the possibility of a conspiracy.

In later years, Jenner also represented Chicago labor racketeer Allen Dorfman. Dorfman's stepfather Paul, a leading figure in the Chicago mob, ran the Waste Handlers Union in Chicago in 1939 with Jack Ruby, Lee Harvey Oswald's future killer."

IRE Report on Don Bolles Murder - March 19, 1977:

"For [Del] Webb, the Flamingo experience led to a series of deals with other developers who had their own ties to the Mob-dominated Chicago political machine, including Henry Crown...He became a close adviser to Webb and one of the few men allowed in the inner councils of the corporation. "

I'd be interested to know what Mathew Alexander might have to say about this, Glenn. Have you contacted him?

For those of you who aren't aware, Mathew Alexander is the interrogator who was the author of the Washington Post op-ed that Glenn linked to in his post.

I'd be interested to know what Mathew Alexander might have to say about this, Glenn. Have you contacted him?

For those of you who aren't aware, Mathew Alexander is the interrogator who was the author of the Washington Post op-ed that Glenn linked to in his post.

I think Alexander was just on Democracy Now. I haven't spoken with him, but I am interviewing one of the military officers -- retired Admiral John Hutson -- who was part of the meeting described by the Times to urge Obama not to deviate from his commitment re: the Army Field Manual. That will be posted Friday or Monday.

I would like to see Mathew Alexander say the following reminder to the faces of Wyden and Feinstein and hear their 'Humma, humma, humma rebuttal.

The number of U.S. soldiers who have died because of our torture policy will never be definitively known, but it is fair to say that it is close to the number of lives lost on Sept. 11, 2001. How anyone can say that torture keeps Americans safe is beyond me -- unless you don't count American soldiers as Americans.--Mathew Alexander

Thanks Glenn. You're right, he was on yesterday. Here is the link for readers.

http://www.democracynow.org/2008/12/3/us_interrogator_in_iraq_says_torture

We need Americans to wake up to the fact that freedom, liberty, civil rights, and the rule of law are far more important than our petty fears of the 'other'. That is true no matter which party is selling the fear to keep the public in line.

I read that some are calling for 'preventive detentions' to be made part of our normal legal proceedures and inacted into federal law. How could any American ask for someone to be detained indeffinatly without being charged or tried in a court of law? (civilian court, I mean)

Now you tell me that a politician back-tracks as soon as she is on the verge of being able to accually do something. Imagine my surprise!

I am not a conspiracy theorist. I consider myself a generally rational person being slowly driven to irrationality by this blog. You insist on making us take brief glimpses behind the stage of Congress. Each time you do it, I become more and more convinced that what happens on stage is not our government in action, but theater designed to pull the wool over our eyes. The script and the dialogue change as actors get on and off the stage, but the ACTION of the play never changes.

I am now convinced the Club exists. Regardless of the constant displays of disdain for each other and mock combat that goes on, I now believe that at least the Senate is mostly one of unified thought. This article, FISA, the Joe Lieberman incident, and similar episodes demonstrate that the differences between what the "Democrats" say and what the "Republicans" say is determined solely by what they think they must say to their respective electorates to remain part of the Club AND still accomplish the Club's unified goals - all taking into account the head count on the stage.

In this particular instance, the Club believes the CIA should have some leeway. Based on what we now know about who knew what when, we must conclude that Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib, rendition, and all these similar abuses happened with the knowledge and tacit consent of Congress - ALL OF IT.

The crazy leftwingers (count me in) believe that torture is unacceptable, period, end of story. So while the Republican script included a Bush threat of a veto, DiFi could say electorate-pleasing things like no torture, no way, no how. Now that Bush is being shuffled off the stage, that changes the "facts on the ground." I.e., no Bush veto to take advantage of. So now for the Club to get what it wants - leeway for the CIA, DiFi's script must be altered to allow for what the Club wants, without being obvious about it to the electorate. Enter subtleties, weasel words, and the ever-changing wall of absolute laws on Animal Farm.

Congress is choking on barnacles. Put it this way - when DiFi now says that she wants that she wants to pass a law that completely bans torture, I believe that about as much as I believe George Bush when he says that we already don't. Can we clean house already? Please?!