Thanks for the pointer. Stuart Taylor misrepresents himself, in my opinion. He presents as not wanting to tear the country apart, not wanting to keep good people from working in government, not wanting to cripple the Obama administration. But then he uses ticking bomb as his debate method, then nitpicking decisions of what is and is not torture.

Basically, this man is not interested fundamentally in the politcal consequences and policy debates and all the other smoke screens. He believes in torture plain and simple, and significantly he believes in defending both American and Israeli practices.

He uses the ticking bomb (the lawyer and the whore), repeatedly, and appeals to integrity repeatedly. This is a man who is justifying, and believes in, the practices, not arguing the political damage. If he is indicative of the media consensus, there are extremely serious implications for the future of the democracy, as Scott Horton points out in Harper's.

Beaten, Tortured and Sentenced 25-to-Life for Minor Drug Offense (see sig)

http://www.alternet.org/drugreporter/108021/beaten%2C_tortured_and_sentenced_25-to-life_for_minor_drug_offense/?page=entire

The rate at which the media is kicking up a sandstorm against criminal investigations and prosecutions for war crimes and torture for the Bush administration is mind boggling. It certainly looks like they don't want it to happen?

Granted that they do so on behalf of Republican issues frequently (the "I think Americans don't want progressive..." meme, the Defense Analysts scandal, etc.). But is there any feeling among others that perhaps the press has irons in this fire? I know my informal monitoring of the torture coverage in the New York Times certainly seems beyond reasonable sometimes in the lack of coverage, and I have some suspicions that there is a larger motive than just throwing cold water on bloggers and leftists, or supporting think tank drumbeats.

https://www.cia.gov/careers/life-at-cia/

The CIA offers exciting career opportunities and a dynamic environment.

We're on the forefront of world-altering events — as they happen.

So working here isn't just a job, it's a mindset and a lifestyle.

- - cia.gov

I know you're working for the CIA

They wouldn't have you in the Mafia

Why can't we be friends?

Funny you should mention that.

I think the most plausible hypothesis is that the corporations that the media speaks for (see my earlier posts on the Propaganda Model) have decided that the bourgeois republic is no longer an adequate form of governance for them. It is simply too open to pressure and too subject to accountability from below for their tastes. They won the Cold War, goddamnit, and it's time to let them enjoy the fruits of their victory. When they're done feasting on us, maybe they'll let us have a share of the scraps if we behave. Maybe.

If we don't, well...it's off to Gitmo* with us!

The threat of torture is an effective tool for keeping the masses in line, according to the theory popular amongst these circles. You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs. See, e.g., Naomi Klein's The Shock Doctrine.

In short, what we're seeing here is the standard media "sandstorm" (nice metaphor) against accountability. Big Brother loves you. What's at stake is the corporate system; not because it's necessarily threatened in any fundamental way (which it may or may not be, however you would like it to be), but because a few key figures have decided that the corporate system==huge profits and no risk (for them).

* Or wherever we decide to send our future torture subjects.

Name more than one "regular poster" that said Obama is the messiah or a savior (subject to a finding by a jury appointed from within these pages) and I'll leave here forever. If you can't, you leave forever.

Whaddaya say?

Or, how about you leave here forever anyway?

Whaddaya say?

Long before the degrading excesses of Abu Ghraib and Guantánamo, these police "interrogators" tried to forcibly extract "information" that Williams could not provide. Ultimately, he had to be rushed by ambulance from the motel to the county hospital for emergency care.

I've often thought that the justifiable moral response to what we're doing abroad has served to obscure what's happening here at home. I don't suggest a conflation. These are actually two sides of the same coin.

Thanks for the link.

Sounds nice, but most pertinently, that idea is not mainstream.

because first there is all this foolishness about 'the messiah' and 'worship' and then you guys turn right back to a honest discussion about 'Torture' again and this makes me look like some kind of creep and I don't like it because I voted for Obama to stop Torture - and he promised me he will - and as I am also an 'issue person' and I didn't give too much thought with whom he is going to stop Torture and instead listened to all of his interviews he gave lately where he reassured me again and again - and then I come back to UT and I read that most of you gals and guys are very unhappy with him because of the people he picked to stop Torture and that he doesn't want to punish 'the evil Bush' and all the other 'evildoers' and I get really depressed - but then thanks god Sinnard comes along and it is loony time again and I am so relieved and I finally realize that Obama must be the messiah because he is willing to shoulder all these sins

of the evildoers (and on this blog too) and suddenly I am all at peace again.

Granted that they do so on behalf of Republican issues frequently (the "I think Americans don't want progressive..." meme

You might take a look (if you haven't already) at the dust being kicked up over Sirota's column . Many there are going to some lengths to say how center (centre, if you're Canadian) right we are.

if Jebbie comes up with another fishnetstory and yells 'we got a winner' we can go back to biswax as usual!