Ok, use of the word "obvious" was an overstatement.

I do think, however, that more than a couple of the people who voted for FISA reform were reading the tea leaves, were considering the upcoming election as they made their decisions....didn't want to look weak.

In response to your:

"You haven't made your case that the only motivation for power is personal aggrandizement or altruistic intent "

should have been

"I never intended to make a case that there was a sole motivator for power"

"Virtually everything that ------ idiot has done in the past 8 years has been for two reasons: 1) his ------ up ideology and 2) to enhance, protect and defend his fellow Thugs." - retlizard

Please explain exactly how illegal surveillance or torture has enhanced, protected, or defended his fellow thugs. Name a thug, and explain how they benefitted from spying, from torture. Back it up.

I don't think you can do this. I've been asking for two days, and gotten zero examples.

I am arguing that the general populace would be sympathetic to those arguments. ...that's obvious isn't it, why else would the constitution dismantling FISA reform have passed?

-- NotOrbitBoy

No, that is not only not obvious, it is factually incorrect.

Congress passed the FISA changes, not "the general populace" The "general populace" was against it passing.

http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2008/07/10/obama_fisa/

My definition of reading: interpreting words as having meaning

I never intended to make a case that there was a sole motivator for what Bush did

Friday, November 14, 2008 07:52 AM

I personally believe that Bush acted to protect us

Thursday, November 13, 2008 07:07 AM

I know, it sucks that people can go back and read what you actually wrote.

Why not stop while you're behind? It's worked for others.

Now, the only decision I have to make is to determine whether you're a Troll or just an incredibly stupid nincompoop.'

Neither - I'm trying to prove a point - criminal activity is still criminal activity and should be prosecuted. Bush and his cronies are NOT and never have been above the law.

I'm not invoking "The Secret", Daniel. Heh. But there is much projection going on here and in the blogsphere and on Tee Bee. There have been some mystifying things BHO has done (re: FISA, Israel, Liebermann [if true])that seem contradictory. But, I'm not Prez and I wouldn't want that job. Who among us can imagine the conflicting interests that have to be balanced, respected, pandered to, etc.? It's a corrupting and dangerous position.

I have read BHO's biographies, and there is nothing that leads me to believe he is going to renege on his commitment to restore some semblance of law in Washington. I could be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time.

The tied-sheet ladder reference was just extemporaneous. I'm the Class Clown, here, not a Serious Opinionista. Nonetheless, while I supported BHO in a big way for many of the same reasons as people here (and Glenn) supported him, I am not stupid. I have a whole laundry list of things I want to see happen in the next 4 to 6 years, and I'll be the first to scream bloody murder if certain things do not happen.

We can't sit around and wait for things to happen. We have to be proactive, fwiw.

Surely you jest, NoOB.

Here's the score, dude: Bush & Cheney and their first group of Thugs planned to overthrow SadDam and get a foothold in Eye-Rak and usurp the oil resources cuz there was this thing called the Oil Bourse where ol' SadDam had decided Euros were a better currency than Dollars....but that's just a sidenote.

Ok, so the Thugs get into power, and they are eager to get into EyeRak. Lots of docs support this, as well as their intent to pretty much declare Martial Law. Anyhoo, along came 9/11. Wow. Serendipity, baby! What incredible fortune. A new Pearl Harbor! How convenient.

Round up a bunch of "suspects"....torture a few who are actually part of this mysterious Al Qaeda group which was, incidentally, very likely formed by the CIA in the first place. (Tin foil hats not required, this is fact.)

Anyhoo, they commit so many violations of so many laws, they have to retrofit laws to Cover their Azzes, shred the evidence, bury the bodies, render everyone at Gitmo incompetent, thus making it difficult to put the pieces together.

Now? Who knows what Dubya is doing. It ain't altrusitic, I can tell ya that much. Virtually everything that fucking idiot has done in the past 8 years has been for two reasons: 1) his fucked up ideology and 2) to enhance, protect and defend his fellow Thugs.

Extra credit for the (please), but...

Stop manifesting your worst nightmares and start visualizing justice and change. If enough of you are going to project your Charlie Brown/Lucy fantasy onto this administration which hasn't even taken office, just because you have been so disillusioned and betrayed in the past....well, you're all going to have that reality.

..."The Secret?" That's really going to be your argument? I'm sorry, but I have just taken so much of this from lib/prog friends over the past week 'n' a half who read my blog post expressing concern - not judgment, not certainty, but at-least-halfway-well-reasoned concern and analysis, but concern - over what Obama has said in the past and done in the present.

It's seldom as clearly expressed as what you just wrote, but it boils down to just that: merely by expressing it, we will create the reality of Obama taking these actions.

Sorry, but I call bullshit on that.

I will wait for the real fire before I start making my sheet ladder.

And I will invest in a fire extinguiser. To each his own.

Oatmeal for breakfast, lots of raw fruits and I'm all set.

Well then you would like the salad I make starting oh, about mid-May and running to early July. I grow some mean greens in my garden. ;-}

Airbrushers Union Local 143, has reminded me that my contract with them includes a premium pay provision for "doing the impossible".

What lightweights. Shame on them for letting the waxing guys outdo them...

http://tinyurl.com/6p7yyb

She's insisting on Top Billing and I'll have to devote a lot of time and energy placating her voracious vanity.

Oh, I'm willing to share, just not with Shooter. Can you blame me? A girl's got her reputation to protect, dyk.

The Voles are currently busy practicing their Michigan Sucks! victory dance routine and won't be available to make an appearance until after The Game and they sober up.

Yes, the voles have difficulty multi-tasking. They should be good to go by noon or so on sunday.