Other articles on Salon.com show that abuse of power went much broader and deeper than we realised -- but also that top Dems were at least complicit in aspects of e.g. rendition and surveillance.

I was for impeachment -- but that option is gone, and anyway we need a broader solution.

This back and forth has gone on ever since Watergate, and every time, the GOP has come back looking more and more like Big Brother (as in Orwell, not as on TV). Immediate prosecutions will only continue the process and maybe encourage our slide into the Warfare State, where all excesses are justified by the cynical search for "victory" against invented foreign enemies.

I'm drawn to the approach signalled by some in the incoming administration -- a bipartisan investigative commission, external to Congress, like the 9/11 Commission but with broader purview and the residual power to recommend prosecutions. The idea wd be to isolate the extremists in the GOP, reassure the public and reinforce the rule of law. A broad pardon by Bush wd actually help this process by guaranteeing immunity to witnesses in advance.

If such an inquiry got traction with the public, the GOP wd have to respond. The question is -- would the public care? Mark Danner is pessimistic (NYR, upcoming) but the only way forward is to try.

I don't understand how this can even be an issue! If I , as a private citizen, had done even half of what P. Bush has done, I would be facing the death penalty and no one would even blink. How can we NOT prosecute war crimes whenever they occur, wherever they occur and without regards to who committed them. A crime was committed, in fact hundreds of crimes were committed. We are wither a nation of laws and justice or we aren't. If we aren't, then nothing P-E Obama does in office will ultimately matter anyway, because we won't be America anymore.

Why would you want to eat something that has the texture of a sinus secretion and tastes like it's been rubbed with salty rocks?

Ummmm ... I guess oyster slurpies are off the menu up on PM, then?

Cheers,

{retzilian]: "Virtually everything that ------ idiot has done in the past 8 years has been for two reasons: 1) his ------ up ideology and 2) to enhance, protect and defend his fellow Thugs." - retlizard

Please explain exactly how illegal surveillance or torture has enhanced, protected, or defended his fellow thugs. Name a thug, and explain how they benefitted from spying, from torture. Back it up.

You neglect Door #1 there, NoBBy. Why is that? But thuggery, disdain for the law and any such restraints, and "because I said so" type excuses are quite a part of RW authoriarianism. And we can infer that Dubya's fist-pumping "feels good!" exhortation on starting the Iraq war shows a certain fondness for thuggery. Same goes for torture; I'm not Gawd and can't read the minds of the principals that sat down to consider torture in a latter-day Wannasee conference, but I'd guess that a desire for retribution was there amongst many.

And then there was Card's uncharacteristic comment about the timing of introducing "new products" ... not to mention Rove's machinations, figuring (correctly, at that time) that macho bluster and hawkishness on Iraq (seeing as Afghanistan hadn't turned out quite the way they'd hoped) could be used as a cudgel in Nov. 2002 and beyond. And if you still are too stoopid to figure that out, you need only look at the leaked/unintentionally disclosed PowerPoint from that time.

Cheers,

I guess oyster slurpies are off the menu up on PM, then?

Just more for you. ;-}

to get into a very heavy session of the blame game, formerly known as the dispensation of justice.

Those who argue otherwise have first to demonstrate the absence of victims of the policies and actions at issue, an obvuisly fruitless exercise which I've never heard the advocates of that position attempt.

I guess oyster slurpies are off the menu up on PM, then?

Just more for you. ;-}

Even more. My bride shares your opinion.... :-)

Cheers,

Obama will accomplish the important things he has to do. That does not mean he should let criminals go free. The Bush Administration has caused untold damage to America, its people and the globe. If we are a nation of laws then it is hypocritical to allow the criminals to go free. Bush, Cheney and their cohorts are war criminals, and have committed high crimes and misdemeanors against their own country. This is not a case of let bygones be bygones - this is a case where justice must be served.

And here is another voice out of the woodwork who knows what Obama 'should do' and 'should not do'. Please give it a rest.

If you are over seven and believe in either someone probably has to read this to you.

Stupid is as stupid does.

Everyone likes to pretend there is equal justice in America… we just don’t aren’t as good at pretending any more.

Please explain exactly how illegal surveillance or torture has enhanced, protected, or defended his fellow thugs. Name a thug, and explain how they benefitted from spying, from torture. Back it up.

Well, off the top of my head, I can think of some very logical reasons why BushCo would surveil, eavesdrop, and torture people in order to benefit their cause/cronies.

If you view the Bush Administration in terms of a series of CRIMES instead of a group of governing bodies, you will see how they acted like criminals who were constantly trying to stay ahead of getting caught, who had incredible resources and power to obfuscate, evade detection, destroy evidence, keep tabs on Who Knew What, and were able to rig the table to protect themselves.

Imagine a serial killer being able to murder people, kidnap and hide any witnesses, destroy all the evidence, rig the courts, taint the jury pool, bribe the judges, and then change the laws to make your crimes retroactively legal.