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Sunday, Nov 8, 2009
In America, sadomasochism is only considered illegal if someone gets a boner.
I'm not sure the distinction is quite so clear.
See this:
http://leastdangerousbranch.blogspot.com/2008/05/what-was-specific-intent.html
(or click sig for link)
(Staff Judge Advocate at Guantanamo Diane) Beaver told me she arrived in Guantánamo in June 2002. In September that year there was a series of brainstorming meetings, some of which were led by Beaver, to gather possible new interrogation techniques. Ideas came from all over the place, she said. Discussion was wide-ranging [...]
Jack Bauer had many friends at Guantánamo Bay, Beaver said, "he gave people lots of ideas." She believed the series contributed to an environment in which those at Guantánamo were encouraged to see themselves as being on the frontline - and to go further than they otherwise might [...]
The younger men would get particularly agitated, excited even: "You could almost see their dicks getting hard as they got new ideas." A wan smile crossed Beaver's face. "And I said to myself, you know what, I don't have a dick to get hard. I can stay detached."
Cheers,
And in all cases, the perps went to jail. Seems fair to me.
No. In fact, far from the truth. Here it is:
http://www.humanrightsfirst.org/us_law/etn/dic/exec-sum.asp
Command's Responsibility: Detainee Deaths in U.S. Custody in Iraq and Afghanistan
Command's ResponsibilityExecutive Summary
Do I believe that [abuse] may have hurt us in winning the hearts and minds of Muslims around the world? Yes, and I do regret that. But one of the ways we address that is to show the world that we don’t just talk about Geneva, we enforce Geneva . . . . [T]hat’s why you have these military court-martials; that’s why you have these administrative penalties imposed upon those responsible because we want to find out what happened so it doesn’t happen again. And if someone has done something wrong, they’re going to be held accountable.
—U.S. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales
Confirmation Hearings before the Senate Judiciary Committee
January 6, 2005
Basically [an August 30, 2003 memo] said that as far as they [senior commanders] knew there were no ROE [Rules of Engagement] for interrogations. They were still struggling with the definition for a detainee. It also said that commanders were tired of us taking casualties and they [told interrogators they] wanted the gloves to come off . . . . Other than a memo saying that they were to be considered “unprivileged combatants” we received no guidance from them [on the status of detainees].
—Chief Warrant Officer Lewis Welshofer
Testifying during his Court Martial for Death of Iraqi General Abed Hamed Mowhoush
January 19, 2006
Since August 2002, nearly 100 detainees have died while in the hands of U.S. officials in the global “war on terror.” According to the U.S. military’s own classifications, 34 of these cases are suspected or confirmed homicides; Human Rights First has identified another 11 in which the facts suggest death as a result of physical abuse or harsh conditions of detention. In close to half the deaths Human Rights First surveyed, the cause of death remains officially undetermined or unannounced. Overall, eight people in U.S. custody were tortured to death.
Despite these numbers, four years since the first known death in U.S. custody, only 12 detainee deaths have resulted in punishment of any kind for any U.S. official. Of the 34 homicide cases so far identified by the military, investigators recommended criminal charges in fewer than two thirds, and charges were actually brought (based on decisions made by command) in less than half. While the CIA has been implicated in several deaths, not one CIA agent has faced a criminal charge. Crucially, among the worst cases in this list – those of detainees tortured to death – only half have resulted in punishment; the steepest sentence for anyone involved in a torture-related death: five months in jail.
(or click sig for link)
Cheers,
As long as Glenn puts up S&M porn as an American ideal of adult consensuality,...
<*Ahhhoooogggahhh! Ahhhoooogggahhh!*> "Staw Man" Alert! Incoming!!!
Perhaps you could compare it to being shackled and hooded, and kept under 204 hours guard by M-16-toting guards (and often beaten, humiliated, drugged, waterboarded, etc.) 10K km away from your home, without access to lawyers, family or anyone....
Cheers,
ondelette (October 6, 2008 10:19 AM):
Alice Miller's characterization of the underlying cause motivations of torturers do not correspond well with facts, see Darius Rejali (actually maybe just trust me on him, please).
I read the interview of Rejali that you linked to and see no tension whatsoever between Rejali and Miller.
What do you have in mind, here?
So the moral rot of this Bush/Cheney war mongering regime comes full circle.
Strangely peculiar how ex-AG Alberto Gonzales was so keyed on this area of law and judicial outcome when he so very much ignored over and over similar black/white morality regarding his own regimes illegal,unethical conduct and poisoned political ploys.
For this Bush/Cheney regime to concern itself so selectively on matters of what is obscene or immoral surely is a stretch.
The Bush/Cheney regime surely has been fully obscene in having unleashed brutal American militarism on Iraq and Afghanistan against defenseless civilians repeatedly. On the ground. From the air. American obscene terrorism as good as it gets most often.
That these war criminals would pontificate on what is obscene surely a mockery of any valid process in what they consider to be obscene.
That Bush/Cheney regime would demand immunity for the obscene conduct(seek out and do torture)(false patriotism)(fiscal fantasy)(American sky terror in Iraq,Afghanistan and Pakistan)) they have promoted and condoned and then put this legal charade up as proof of the pure piety they subscribe to is obscenely ignorant and arrogant.
I'm reading Torture and Democracy, Rejali's "definitive work" (and have been reading it, and will be reading it...). The mindsets of a lot of the torturers do not resemble what Alice Miller says about vengeance reactions to childhood trauma. They resemble the mindsets of the Germans who butchered the Jews (in, say, the Der Spiegel article). Somewhat too mundane and bureaucratic. The mindsets in thinking up the tortures also seem eerily placid, too. The electric chair, which started the slide to electric shock torture, evolved out of an advertising campaign by Thomas Alva Edison to defeat George Westinghouse on the question of DC vs. AC house current. The 'water cure' is called that because it was a precursor to electroshock therapy.
The guys at the top, well, Glenn has spent good time talking about the manliness aspects of the ideology in the U.S., but down in the trenches, its, well, too mundane to support revenge for the wrongs of anything, childhood included. Trauma or warping to their minds from what they are doing to people, yes, and permanent.
If I've misinterpreted Alice Miller, then okay, I may be wrong. I only read what she posted on her website about torture, which was brief.
Much of the initial coverage about Fort Hood turned out to be wrong. Is there anything wrong with that?
The accountability imposed by another country for the CIA's kidnapping and torture reveals much about our own.
Fox News' morning show plays to type, talking about whether Muslims in the Army should face "special debriefings"
The survivor and author is upset about comparisons some on the right are making to genocide
Once seen as a lunatic fringe, reactionary anti-women groups are courting respectability
Salon headlines in your mailbox
