Are only Democratic governors required to turn over their control of the NG before receiving federal assistance in these emergencies? -- Jebbie

This is George W Bush and Richard B Cheney we're talking about. Politics is their all and only reason.

While an individual policeman in a squad car or on foot DOES have a lot of discretion, I doubt individual policemen in a the sort of cordon situation in which the Democracy Now members were arrested do.

It is my impression that all three were arrested summarily after being given an order to move and questioning that order -- in other words, in a strict sense, not obeying a direct order -- which then became interfering, resisting arrest (the usual progression).

This suggests to me a likely "zero tolerance" policy in place in that location. No, I don't think that's "okay" however, if those were the "rules" underwhich the cops were operating, the courts, etc. will have to be the ones to sort it out. From the Goodman arrest video (and no, I haven't studied this and/or watched every video) it appeared she was a some sort of either staging or arrest area where there was some sort of building or paddywagon in the background. Amy Goodman seemed to think she could intervene then and there. (I don't know if her colleagues were there or if they had already been transferred "downtown") while the police may have considered it a fixed site in need of defense and a potential target.

Yes, there were photos of other policemen in sky blue polo shirts on bicycles ... those police in a DIFFERENT venue with a different crowd probably had "discretion." The heavily armed front line cops in areas of conflict and those trying to maintain a cordon, not so much. They don't call it "paramilitary" for nothing.

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Two factoids I ran into that I cannot judge well ...

first, that many of those still in jail are there because they have refused to give their names ... and that many of these folks are from "out of town." Don't know if it's true .. but there are a lot of people (around 250) incarcerated and rumored to be facing felonies.

Second, that the police have likely been indoctrinated with anti-protestor propaganda over the last year, specifically claims that cops were killed and injured in Seattle, etc. Apparently, reports to M-SP police have been witnessed/documented saying really ugly anti-protestors things. It sounds like both "sides" have been incubating a pretty toxic brew of expectations.

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The "small group" of "self-proclaimed anarchists" have come off as attention-seeking wannabes with damn little politics attached.

However, two hundred black masked people assembled and on the move creates a rather different picture from that of innocently "parading" indidviduals with their police and press escort.

I don't think there is any one "truth" about the situation ... it's fluid across time and space, hard to generalize.

The convergence center was raided and padlocked ... then it reopened. The poverty encampment, I read, was raided/displaced, then it was back ... For my efforts, I'm finding reporting spotty and hard to follow.

As far as I am aware, no one has been killed or seriously injured. That may change, but it's something of a miracle.

LWM - While I agree with some, certainly not all, of what you write, you might well be reminded that you are not the only regular here who has extensive experience in "front line" policing in a large urban setting.

While ride-alongs can be occasionally instructive, in most cases a normal police shift will cause the ride-alongers to nod off in boredom.

IMO, ridealongs are a great PR tool for gaining support for your local sheriff, but for actual understanding, beyond the police groupie level, they are practically worthless.

imho, it is a mistake to underestimate how quickly and how badly things can get "out of control"

As a child and in the 1960s (my mother was politically active) I witnessed fellow protesters harassed, spit on, and name-called .. there were occasional fistfights ... the cops did nothing. The FBI was there with their cameras taking everyone's picture.

The cops did nothing but I suspect they did help keep our enemies subdued.

Of course Republican governors have to keep command of their National Guard troops. Keep in mind that's one of the primary reasons Gov. Palin is ready to lead on Day 1 (or is it 10,000?).

The "small group" of "self-proclaimed anarchists" have come off as attention-seeking wannabes with damn little politics attached.

However, two hundred black masked people assembled and on the move creates a rather different picture from that of innocently "parading" individuals with their police and press escort.

I don't think there is any one "truth" about the situation ... it's fluid across time and space, hard to generalize.

As far as I am aware, no one has been killed or seriously injured. That may change, but it's something of a miracle.

-- susan sunflower

Watch out Susan, they're a tough bunch, and they're comin' the gettcha!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6PLwOt0Bls

Inner city blacks actually had a reason to view the police as a machine of oppression. -- L.W.M.

And they don't now? Good to know.

Even better is knowledge that the highly militarized forces deployed in St. Paul to protect and defend the Republican conventioneers are protecting us all from the horrible depredations of a handful of rebellious youth (whatever their interest, class, race, or political affiliation, if any) who have committed at worst a tiny bit of vandalism and "monkeywrenching". Nice to know that the police response to this mischief has been so restrained, and that the mass arrests, the firing of grenades, smokebombs, teargas and other irritants, and the pre-emptive arrests and seizures of potential mischief-makers is all in a day's work, just the way these things are supposed to be.

If that isn't what you mean to say, then I've clearly misunderstood what you have said. But that sure looks to me like your thesis about the events described by Glenn and a whole host of others on the scene in St. Paul and Minneapolis.

I'd say the rebellious youth you disparage so fully on these pages are not heroes. Nor are the NLG attorneys working diligently on their cases. Nor, by dog, is Amy Goodman or Glenn. Not heroes yet, though they may become heroes if they are able to catalyse the demilitarization of the police forces in this country. But I'd say that right now, that's not even on their long term agendas.

One of the most grotesque aspects of your posts on the topic here is your constant efforts to normalize these overwrought police actions. Americans should never accept this sort of thing as normal or justified. Nor should submission be their default response, their "normalized" behavior, in the face of the police state tactics employed.

If you think my attitude is "typical leftist" then you have truly unplugged your brain.