Who are you arguing with? I just reviewed pages that I hadn't read since last night and I don't see all the 9/11 stuff that you're shaking your fist at. Are posts missing?

Overall, I think this thread has stayed amazingly on topic and informative, especially since it long enough that it usually would have veered off to some other topic all together.

The last couple of months have been the best here at UT that I have ever seen, but you would have to ask "old-timers" if it has been the best ever.

Glenn has been "rocking hot" and the commenters have kept up with him. Some (different ones on different treads) have been spectacular in the amount of information they "bring to the table".

Very few dust-up like the Lincoln thing a while back (yes I was on one side of that one) that forced Glenn to step in. I think Glenn writes better if he is not playing nanny in his comment section. (can't really speak for him, only guess)

So, if you see that a given commenter is always in some fuss-fight, baiting others, trying to be argumentitive, or otherwise disruptive I would suggest not writing to them. I would also suggest staying on topic as much as possible; except for news about Art or something like that.

I recommend all who can, send a card to Art James who is in the hospital. I think his woes are related to his service in Vietnam. (he was drafted)

I sent a note. I hope more will do so.

--------------------------------------------

Art James

C/O VA Medical Center

3 East, Rm. 13

50 Irving St. N.W.

Washington, DC 20422

Here is a publication from Scripps showing B. anthracis can be grown in simple medium and induced to sporulate moderately efficiently. The yields achieved in this article are about 10 fold lower than usually achieved in routine bacterial cultures (a hundred million per milliliter instead of a billion), but it should be noted that these cultures were carried out with antibiotic resistance conferring plasmids present (which in my mind, nobody should be doing with B. anthracis, geez!) and antibiotics in the growth medium, so yields might be better without that going on.

Also, this paper destroys the assertion I saw earlier, I think in one of the UT threads, that growth of B. anthracis requires the use of live feeder cells. In this paper, they used LB broth, which is the most used bacterial medium around.

Given the yields in this paper, a loner would need to grow about twenty to fify liters of culture to harvest the material in the Daschle and Leahy letters. With standard billion per milliliter yields, then only a few liters of culture would be needed.

Link: http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1595385

(Although we share a last name, I don't know and don't believe I'm related to the first author of this publication.)

In the tenth graph of today's front page WaPo article with the sensationalized title "Tales of Addiction, Anxiety, Ranting", the authors state:

Ivins starting working with Duley after a stint in rehabilitation about six months ago. It was not the first time, though, that people sensed that he had an addiction problem.

What do they offer as proof for that assertion? That a co-worker, W. Russell Byrne, offered Ivins a beer on one occassion where Ivins had made a "rare appearance at a party."

"He declined," Byrne recalled. "He said he had a family history of alcoholism."

And if that isn't evidence enough, they offer this next paragraph as further proof:

Gerry Andrews, who worked with Ivins at Fort Detrick for nine years and was the bacteriology division's chief from 2000 to 2003, said that it was rare for Ivins to join the other researchers after work for beer and that Ivins drank so little he was kidded about being a teetotaler.

On the rare occasions that Ivins attended parties, he was known to turn down alcohol and he drank so little that he was kidded about being a teetotaler, therefore logic and good journalism leads one to the conclusion that "people sensed that (Ivins) had an addiction problem."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/05/AR2008080503747.html?hpid=topnews&sid=ST2008080503796&pos=

The "Sterne" strain is a capsule deficient strain of anthrax that is injected into animals to confer immunity. ( used as an animal vaccine).

The reference for production of virulent anthrax is Hatfil. His picture with his bioreactor is now an infamous part of the case.

Sterne is used in labs for obvious reasons.

when it appeared that it was indeed a game of "telephone" in which all the reporters were working off the same "source documents" and each other's published reports ... adding in whatever tiny nuggets of "independently gathered" info as they could scrounge.

Very hard to keep track of what's already been replaced by other information, though it seems no one has done much in the way of actually retracting information. Interesting how much of the "damning" info is from unnamed sources not authorized to speak ... while many of those defending Ivins are named.

quel suprise.

So this is what I've come up with:

• 2000-2003 Ivins is sober, not drinking; mentions family history with alcoholism

• Late 2006 FBI attention begins to focus on Ivins

• Fall 2007 According to Gerry Andrews, Ivins “falls off radar screen” and begins to have issues with alcohol, etc. Mentions house being watched.

• Nov. 1, 2007 Ivins' house searched (from emptywheel’s timeline)

• Jan-Feb 2008 Begins counseling at treatment center? (In July, 2008 Duley claims to have known Ivins for six months)

• March 2008 FBI agents harass Ivins and his family at mall.

• March 2008 Ivins tells former colleague that he suspects his therapist is cooperating with the FBI (Is this Duley? According to her testimony at hearing for protective order, she was not contacted by the FBI until a “couple of weeks” before her July 26 court appearance. Is it David Irwin? Or was Ivins just paranoid?)

• March 19, 2008 Found unconscious at home – evaluated at Frederick Memorial Hospital

• May 26, 2008 Returns from 4 weeks of rehab at the Massie Unit of the Finan Center in Cumberland. “It was a good program. . . . They talk about relapse triggers, relapse prevention, stress management, etc."

• July 2008 Duley contacted by FBI (according to Duly at July 24 hearing, she had been contacted by them in the “last couple of weeks”)

• July 9, 2008 Ivins agitated at group therapy - “out of control.” Duley contacts his attorneys (How does she know who his attorneys are?)

• July 11, 2008 Ivins leaves “threatening” messages for Duley

• July 16, 2008 Ivins to attend commitment hearing but, on advice of counsel, has himself voluntarily committed so that he will be able to check himself out

• July 24, 2008 Duley applies for protective order; Ivins scheduled to be released that day, prompting Duley’s application

• July 29, 2008 Ivins overdoses, dies July 31

Questions:

What happened between late 2006, when FBI began to focus on Ivins, and fall 2007 when Ivins was obviously having serious mental health issues, trouble with alcohol, etc. Was harassment similar to that of Hatfill taking place?

When did Ivins see Dr. David Irwin? According to court records, Ivins saw Irwin at Shady Grove Psychiatric Group in Gaithersburg. Do not know exactly when he was patient.

Who are the “several” forensic psychiatrists who have diagnosed Ivins and how does Duley know what they said? Is Irwin one of them? If Irwin, did he have permission from Ivins to discuss with Duley? If others, did they tell her? Did Ivins discuss in therapy? Or did she hear this from FBI?

How does Duley know what Ivins supposedly did as far back as 2000? Is it something he has said in therapy? Or is she repeating what FBI/other therapists told her?

It doesn't seem as though Duley had any concerns about Ivins until after the FBI contacted her. Were they "stepping up the pressure" on Ivins, causing his erratic behaviour on July 9? And what exactly did Duley's "full cooperation" with the FBI entail? Did she release confidential information from therapy sessions to FBI? What are the rules regarding privilege in a group therapy environment?

I wish I had more time to pull all the information out there together. This working for a living really interferes with things!

-MB (formerly known as LunaSea)