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Monday, August 4, 2008 12:00 AM

Additional key facts re: the anthrax investigation

The media's key witness as to the psychological state of Bruce Ivins -- Jean Carol Duley -- has a lengthy history that undermines her credibility.

The letters thread is now closed.

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Tuesday, August 5, 2008 06:57 AM

Mooser

-I'm pretty sure a high wind produced more side and twisting forces on those towers than the jet, which was chewed up like brie through a cheese grater.-

The skin of a 757 is the about same gauge of aluminum foil as my hat.

Tuesday, August 5, 2008 06:55 AM

Background info

Here are a couple of links for good background info:

http://www.ph.ucla.edu/EPI/bioter/detect/antdetect_intro.html

And that link has this link at the bottom of the page:

http://www.anthraxinvestigation.com/

Tuesday, August 5, 2008 06:53 AM

OK, Whatever

Sigh. Did you read my theory on the real 9/11 conspiracy?

Who exactly set the charges, NWW?

Tuesday, August 5, 2008 06:52 AM

hey -

General !- heads up - never retreat never complain - this is the 'antrax front' and we have to get through this war and ig everybody is sober again and the dogs don't smell the irvin or the duley anymore there will plenty of ways to rejoice!

Tuesday, August 5, 2008 06:52 AM

Lyophilizer

A lyophilizer is actually a device that uses temperature and vacuum to draw water out of substances. I used to use one in a manufacturing process to produce ampules of dried ATP (adenosine triphosphate). It does not do any grinding itself. Through temperature and pressure changes water is drawn out of the material of interest and removed from the resulting atmosphere inside the lyophilizer. It is a long process, several hours, depending on the material.

Tuesday, August 5, 2008 06:51 AM

General Zod

the towers are still there but concealed from view

Tuesday, August 5, 2008 06:48 AM

@northwestwoods

I'm sorry but you should try to seek out as much footage as you can of WTC 7 and the massive gaping hole in its front (facing the rest of the WTC complex). It was really fucked up. And on fire. And everybody knew it was a'gonna collapse. And it did. Sorry, but those buildings were not made to withstand what they were subjected to, planes or not.

If I'm way off base re: what I think to be your opinion just group me in with sugarman and the rest of the alcoholics (j/k I'm not one of them - - - yet), but I'm on your side. Believe me.

Tuesday, August 5, 2008 06:45 AM

chowderSF

-Bruce E. Ivins, the government's leading suspect in the 2001 anthrax killings, borrowed from a bioweapons lab that fall freeze-drying equipment that allows scientists to quickly convert wet germ cultures into dry spores, **according to sources briefed on the case**. -

There are those unnamed sources again.

The fucking FBI has been leaking their case like a sieve for the past 48 hours.

These are the talking-points distributed in real-time for the AM radio nuts and FOX and ABC and CNN in preparation for today's press release.

Watch them all fall neatly into line.

Tuesday, August 5, 2008 06:44 AM

@ mac

Great. I just really think this whole thing has gotten out of control. I never said I take the FBI's word on anything, nor would I considering who runs the executive branch. But seriously when we start parsing the therapist's life (yeah she had a DWI at 1:35 AM) before hearing the (almost guaranteed to be bullshit) FBI's account of their case, aren't we all just wasting our time?

Why am I getting personally attacked? Good grief.

Tuesday, August 5, 2008 06:42 AM

You couldn't have made the anthrax with a lyophilizer.

This is a device for grinding biological material under a vacuum at low temperatures. It produces powders -start with strawberries, you get strawberry powder.

Now, let's consider the actual anthrax powder that was sent through the mail in sealed, taped envelopes - the powder was so fine that many mail sorters were sickened, and some died.

The Daschle letter was recovered and sent to USAMRIID for analysis on Oct 15. What did they find?

"He began preparing a sample for the scope. He opened the tube and tapped a little bit of the anthrax onto a piece of sticky black tape that would hold the powder in place. But the anthrax bounced off the tape. The particles wouldn't stick. Eighty percent of the Daschle particles flittered away in air currents up the hood. That was when he understood that the Hart Building was utterly contaminated.

He somehow managed to get some of the particles to stick to the tape. He hurried the sample into the scope room, put it under a scanning scope, and zoomed in. What he saw shocked him.

The spores were stuck together into chunks that looked like moon rocks. They reminded him of grinning jack-o'-lanterns, skeletons, hip sockets and Halloween goblin faces. The anthrax particles had an eroded, pitted look, like meteorites fallen to earth. Most chunks were very tiny, sometimes just one or two spores, but there were also boulders. One boulder looked to him like a human skull, with eye sockets and a jaw hanging open and screaming. It was an anthrax skull.

The skulls were falling apart. He could see them crumbling into tiny clumps and individual spores, smaller and smaller as he watched. This was anthrax designed to fall apart in the air, to self-crumble, maybe when it encountered humidity or other conditions. He had a national security clearance, and he knew something about anthrax, but he could not imagine how this weapon had been made. It looked extremely sinister. He started feeling shaky.

He called Jahrling. "Peter, I'm in the scope room. Can you come up here, like right now?"

Jahrling ran upstairs, closed the door, and stared at the skull anthrax for a long time. He didn't say much. Geisbert's security clearance was rated secret, and the details of how this material could have been made might be more highly classified." - Richard Preston, the Demon in the Freezer

You can't make that kind of preparation using a lyophilizer - you get all kinds of cell debris, junk, etc. You certainly can't prepare 100% pure anthrax spores, at a trillion cells per gram. This is a joke - absolute nonsense.

"In September [2003] a senior FBI official acknowledged that after two years of trying, the FBI and defense scientists have been unable to recreate the sophisticated, weaponized form of anthrax found in the letters sent to Democratic Sens. Tom Daschle of South Dakota and Patrick Leahy of Vermont, making it all the more unlikely a lone rogue scientist was able to whip it up in a plastic box while under water in a Maryland pond.

That was when Hatfill was the target; now Ivins is the target, but that basic fact hasn't changed. This guy could not have done it. The only likely suspects are the ones the FBI has avoided: Dugway Utah and Battelle Memorial in West Jefferson Ohio. They had the means (they'd made the stuff before) and the motive (massive Project Bioshield contracts and expansion of the U.S. biowarfare complex).

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