I would also point to various episodes in American history, the most recent examples being the Civili Rights and antiwar movements in the 1960s. Talk about direct opposition!

Johnson, and Nixon after him, weren't about to exterminate or imprison masses of protesters. I seriously doubt you could you say the same about Bush. The concentration camps are now in place.

Under the circumstances, the mass protest approach has been considered and found wanting, although it's very likely that its turn will come up soon after the economic collapse. Even an indirect civil disobedience approach could be expected to fail in an informational police state.

Kitt, I guess my bar is too low, I am just happy to see someone become president who can complete a sentence.

re: "Even an indirect civil disobedience approach could be expected to fail in an informational police state."

Maybe. But utter passivity or political triangulation has been shown to be a 100% failure.

Perhaps a Ghandi-like approach of massive but peaceful civil disobidience is the only possible way forward.

Of course, we lack any figure of Ghandi's stature. And even if Ghandi were to show up tomorrow, by the time the right wing slime machine finished with him, we'd be reading about his alleged past drug abuse and his alleged "love child" with Britney Spears.

We're fooked.

It's true as you say that the institutions - Congress and the press - that we depend on, respectively, to restrain a president and government are still in existence, but you agree they're ineffective at their jobs. The way I see it, effect is what it's all about. The institutions themselves are becoming mere shells, form without content.

It's also true, as you noted, that they're not completely moribund,but while power has swung back and forth between Congress and president since the founding of the nation, I fear that these times are different - the shift of power to the president is being rapidly institutionalized, largely because Congress and the press are ineffective. Given the voters' very poor use of the information that's freely available, evidenced in elections, I'm not at all sure the trend towards authoritarian government will be reversed. Yes, it's possible, but only if voters start educating themselves, and I don't see much of that happening - at least when it comes to Congress.

In fact, the institution of education has become so ineffective that I doubt the average voter knows much of what s/he's voting on, understands the Constitution, or values the role of the press. Combine a generally inadequate education with all the distractions our consumerist society offers - just change the channel! - and you have half of the voters not really paying attention, a quarter of them actually liking the abrogation of the Constitution (at least until the authorities come for THEM), and a quarter outraged but virtually impotent to stop it all.

Politicians focus on the voters with ADD, and the key there is to appeal to the lowest common denominator - in other words, the best image maker wins. Make it short, sweet and simple; pandering works real good; and fear-mongering works even better, whether it's fear of some imagined enemy or of the other candidate. Pound your message in - 30 seconds max - and then let'em get back to American Idol or change the channel. Works every time. (I hope I don't sound elitist - I'm just going by what I see happening. I hope I'm underestimating voters.)

We can't have a democratic republic in those circumstances. It's gotten so bad in the last few decades that I half-wonder if some Great Plan was hatched to dumb down the masses and thus perpetuate what documentarian Adam Curtis called "The Trap".

You're obviously more optimistic than I, and more power to you - I hope you're right and I'm wrong. But then what do you think is going to happen to reverse this downhill slide?

* Maybe this is indeed just one of the cyclical swings of power, and the nation will right itself sooner or later? But can the nation just *do* that, like it's on automatic pilot and course corrections happen via the collective unconscious?

* Some quick, mass awakening of consciousness? How would that happen in current circumstances?

* Somehow progressives will gain a majority in Congress despite the gerrymandered districts, prostrate press and special interest campaign financing (known anywhere else as bribes)?

* Maybe a gradual dawning of awareness of what is happening to the Constitution and thus the nation, and thus people's own welfare, liberty and future? But don't you think that gradual wouldn't be fast enough given the speed with which Congress and the press have hand-delivered power to the president, power that not even Obama (his FISA vote) seems to reject?

* Maybe the courts will step in and rule a host of congressional acts and presidential appropriations of power unconstitutional. There are signs that even a few conservative judges are looking critically at this situation, but are a few going to be enough, especially given the state of the appeals and Supreme courts? In fact, the separation of powers is so shredded now that rulings striking down such things as FISA, the Patriot Act, the Military Commissions Act, and the other various and sundry acts and executive orders and signing statements would amount to a virtual court coup d'etat. I'd love to see it but...

Any ideas on how this accretion of power to the president is going to be not just stopped but reversed?

... Still, there appears to be a difference in kind. Despite his Constitutional offenses, there seems to be no evidence that Clinton pursued a totalitarian state, whereas Bush is clearly doing so. -- walter_map

Yes, the power grabs under Bush the Younger are clearly more totalitarian than under Clinton, or Bush the Elder, or Reagan, or ...

But, they all moved us on down that horrible road. Even my man Carter is not pure in this matter. That is the problem; we allowed the power to accumulate until the neo-cons got there with a pliable fool as a front man that they could control, and they made every use of the power they found to take it several steps further.

Even if Obama seems to be obeying the constitution in every way over the next 4 years (come on, he has already won in a landslide), the power will still be laying there just like the one ring to rule them all in the famous Tolkien story. And there will be great temptation for Obama because he will face challenges not seen in this country since the 30s. Remember, just because he does something with good intentions does not mean that it will be the right thing to do.

FDR thought (or was convinced by others) that rounding up all Japanese-Americans was the thing to do. Obama will face great trials. I suggested to Kitt the other thread that the coming economic meltdown will be pinned on Obama if the Republicans can get away with it, and then I read in the news that McCain is claiming that Obama as president would bring on a depression. (it is coming, no matter who wins)

Under extreme pressure, even I might take unconstitutional measures if I thought it needed and if I could see that other presidents had done likewise. Even me.