Even to the extent of being a "libertarian" who is in favor of gay marriage bans and heavy-handed "war on drugs" prohibition.

And even sincere libertarian ideas on economic and social policy are more or less demonstrably shown to be empirically wrong. It simply isn't the case that countries like Canada, Australia, EU members, or Japan are less free or less prosperous due to their wise tendency to be less "supply side" than the US.

I'll take a pro-civil liberties Democrat or electable Green over a worse Democrat.

I'll take a true libertarian over a fascist, lord help me, if I'm ever in that desperate situation.

But I'm sure as hell not going to start voting for Bob Barr types under normal circumstances.

You can't trust any right winger and you'll end up with crazy, selfish/self-destructive economic and social policy and no rights, either, if you do. Even if they're calling themselves "libertarian" while they're out of power.

I saw some numbers on Barr the other day, can't remember where, but I believe you're right that Barr is going to take a big bite out of McCain's ass come November. He's polling as high as 8% in some states, if I remember right. While many of those states are so red that it may not matter (McCain can afford even huge cuts in some states and still win them), in others, they may allow Obama to squeak out some surprising victories.

I think Barr can hurt McCain much more than Nader can hurt Obama. Over the longer term, two-party behavior should continue to drive voters to seek alternatives, and generally this will have more good than bad impact, imo.

Why should the Loyal Bushies be prosecuted.

What they did may have helped many closet republican 'democrats' get their hands in the trough of money. A debt is owed...

But then by that 'logic' then we should immediately pardon any crime involving money and power. With such a blistering display of 'logic' it's no wonder that Obama gutted the fourth amendment and appears to be waffling on Iraq and abortion and a whole host of other issues that appear to be 'squishy'.

Fuck them all. If you can't stand the heat, go into politics?

Going after the loyal Bushies is the tax payers RIGHT and PRIVILEGE and Obama has taken a lot away from me so far, don't let some craven coward pussy take the glee and pride of seeing Bush and Cheney, et al, twisting in the breeze away from me.

Rhetorical question: If Obama is gutting the constitution AND waffling on Iraq AND doesn't want to pursue Bush, et al, crimes then why the HELL vote for him? We'd get the same from McCain and probably end up with less 'Ken Starr' type lynch mob 'investigations' on top of it...

I mailed a card to Jerry yesterday.

the idea that our highest government officials should be immune from consequences for breaking the law is one of the most pernicious -- and most commonly held -- articles of faith among our political class

But if we don't offer them that, how are we going to attract the best and the brightest into public service? After all, anyone who wants an utter lack of accountabilty can easily find what they need in the private sector!

More @ linky, click sig

http://rawstory.com//news/2008/Cybersecurity_expert_raises_allegations_of_2004_0717.html

GOP cyber-security expert suggests Diebold tampered with 2002 election...

Spoonamore received the Diebold patch from a whistleblower close to the office of Cathy Cox, Georgia’s then-Secretary of State. In discussions with RAW STORY, the whistleblower -- who wishes to remain anonymous for fear of retaliation -- said that he became suspicious of Diebold's actions in Georgia for two reasons. The first red flag went up when the computer patch was installed in person by Diebold CEO Bob Urosevich, who flew in from Texas and applied it in just two counties, DeKalb and Fulton, both Democratic strongholds. The source states that Cox was not privy to these changes until after the election and that she became particularly concerned over the patch being installed in just those two counties.

The whistleblower said another flag went up when it became apparent that the patch installed by Urosevich had failed to fix a problem with the computer clock, which employees from Diebold and the Georgia Secretary of State’s office had been told the patch was designed specifically to address.

Some critics of electronic voting raised questions about the 2002 Georgia race even at the time. Incumbent Democratic Sen. Max Cleland, who was five percentage points ahead of Republican challenger Saxby Chambliss in polls taken a week before the vote, lost 53% to 46%. Incumbent Democratic Governor Roy Barnes, who led challenger Sonny Perdue in the polls by eleven points, lost 51% to 46%. However, because the Diebold machines used throughout the state provided no paper trail, it was impossible to ask for a recount in either case.

Concerned by the electoral outcome, the whistleblower approached Spoonamore because of his qualifications and asked him to examine the Diebold patch.

"I'll take a true libertarian over a fascist, lord help me, if I'm ever in that desperate situation." -- h_lance

Since the fascist and the libertarian are at opposite ends of the political spectrum, I am wondering what it is about "libertarianism" that has you so riled up.

What policy positions do you think "libertarians" hold that you find so repellent as to be barely better than those held by fascists?

I just took a bath. At 12:45, I'll get a hair cut. People need to be groomed.

When I go to the hospital on Monday, docs may say:`Here comes the hick.

I do need to see some hoof doctors. Next, no one knows what will happen?

Hey, you up there in the ivory tower

If all issues exist for you on the same level of abstraction, I can see why Obama's FISA vote might be uppermost in your mind.

The Democrats are far superior to the Republicans in addressing issues that have a direct, day-to-day impact on people's lives. Consider yourselves lucky not to be troubled with such trivialities.-- Connie Boyd

Why the contempt for the ivory tower? Why the disdain for critical thinking? Why denigrate those who care deeply about very important issues? Just as abortion rights might be paramount for you, Constitutional rights are paramount for others. Who is to say that your priorities are superior? That smacks of the very elitism and issue politics that you deride.

As a card-carrying member of the ivory tower, I can assure you that we work hard to understand social and natural phenomena. We labor to increase knowledge and train others to do the same. We struggle to improve the world in the best way we know how. Most of us understand the indirect effects of our work. Most of us are humbled by the vast amount of knowledge that we don't have. Most of us have dedicated ourselves to education in spite of the higher wages and benefits that we might earn in other industries.

Unless you are a card-carrying member of the ivory tower, I suggest you set aside your contempt and try to appreciate our work.