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Thursday, July 10, 2008 12:00 AM

Interview with ACLU re: constitutional challenge to new FISA law

Jameel Jaffer, the Director of the ACLU National Security Project, explains why the new FISA law violates the 4th Amendment and is even broader than the President's illegal NSA program

The letters thread is now closed.

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Friday, July 11, 2008 07:44 PM

First page. prunes and Holly.

shooter242 is a [L] Rush fill in.

He has a fantasy. O being nude.

He begs a film crew to capture,

242, on a beach, alone, ah, lewd.

Friday, July 11, 2008 07:50 PM

Greatly disappointed in Obama

If Obama had come out in a big way in support of the efforts of Dodd, Feingold and Leahy- I think that would have created a lot of pressure in the Senate and changed at least some votes - so it was not a total cave in. I emailed the Obama campaign and told them how disappointed I was about Obama's FISA vote. They responded with a detailed rationale of reasoning. I don't agree with his rationale. As angry as I am- I am so shocked how little the average voter knows about this issue.

The Low Information voter has now become the low information American society. I can't understand how we have become so complacent. It is the same low information voter that bought into the media's nit picking negative portrayal of Al Gore and gave us 8 miserable years of George Bush. And I can see that same dynamic again with McCain. There is an obvious double standard and I would also say an obvious agenda from the corporate controlled media.

Friday, July 11, 2008 07:53 PM

AMENDMENT IV - - - -

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against UNREASONABLE searches and seizures shall not be violated ....

; [ SEMICOLON -- i.e. in separating INDEPENDENT clauses in a compound sentence]

... and no Warrants shall issue, but upon PROBABLE cause, supported by Oath OR AFFIRMATION, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Simply put .... Obama, Pelosi, et al UNDERSTAND with great clarity what it all means. --- and only the Delusionary Simpletons in the US of A ... "don't get it."

The Paranoids of the Bush-Cheney Regime want to Fish-Net lines of communication that are already regulated & operated by the Public for such coded terms as cold-fusion or synthetic biological germs. --- they PROBABLY don't wish to tempt the devil with another Watergate Blowout.

If you want to go down to the salvation army and pickup a couple of old walkie-talkies to plot the overthrow of Said-Regime .... well ... then you've little to be concerned about.

If you want to sit in the privacy of your home kitchen and plot with your cousin to topple the Statue of Liberty into the harbor, then consider yourself Safe from what FISA may do to your TV dinner affair.

Obama, Pelosi, et al see Reality as it is .... they've little faith in advocates who choose to stuff their heads in their bowls of cherrios and blow bubbles of childish misconceptions.

Some will claim the world is round ... others that it's pear shaped ... but if you want to say it's square .... So Be It.

so ..... Charge Thine Windmills !!! ... if it makes Ye feel Noble.

or Hope for the Longshot .... Draft Nader in Denver

Friday, July 11, 2008 08:04 PM

Che Pasa. etc., That sounded too adult.... but good brain victuals.

pete b reminds me of a great marriage counselor. shooter 242 calls 9-1-1, his marriage counselor pete b, the rapist T(YPO), the common sense, therapist. apologies, pete b. I tease.

The conference call is tapped by The White House Palace guard. shooter is talked out of the horrible suicide idea. He agrees. It's immoral, cowardly, and plain old chicken. 242 (@$@) sulks.

shooter is tapped. sad242.pathetic. I no recommend it.

E-Male, Kentucky Fried. Cornel Sandy Beach. com. nudist.

The marriage counselor advises help to 242 pro-tap nudist.

Trolls go to the beach in New Jersey and juggle matzo balls.

After stress is diminished, doe dumplings are tossed into soup.

Friday, July 11, 2008 08:10 PM

Cow Head Soup.

The CEO at KFC ask:

No eat cow head stew.

Enjoy cabbage and peas.

Friday, July 11, 2008 08:11 PM

Various

Derbig and druidbros:

The data can be used to put people on an insurgent list for any reason they desire. And what they will do with the list is anyone's guess. -druidbros

The list is a whole n'other kettle of fish. I've been told the best way to find out if your on one is to buy a one way plane ticket with cash. The results of your inquiry will be made instantaneously available. Otherwise you can ask, and ask, and ask and not get a straight answer because the people who are supposed to know, and log that information, were bypassed. I get the impression there is more than one list and the amount of aggravation you can expect to experience depends on which list you're on. Also, regardless of how erroneously you might have been placed on such a list you're not getting off anytime soon.

FireDogLake did an extensive post on this quite awhile back. I'll see if I can find it.

awklib

Thanks for the link Understanding Recent Changes to FISA. That is some seriously cool stuff - and a heck of a lot of work for someone. Repeating the link for anyone who doesn't want to backtrack to it...

http://www.ketchupandcaviar.com/politics/understanding-recent-
changes-to-fisa-a-visual-guide-flowchart/

Lastly, it appears presidential-hopeful-Obama must be feeling a pinch. did anyone else get an email like this one?

Obama for America Correspondence Team

reply-to Obama for America Correspondence Team

to

date Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 3:06 PM

subject A response to your message to Obama for America

3:06 PM (6 hours ago)

Reply

Dear Friend,

Thank you for contacting us and sharing your strong feelings about this important issue. Please find a statement from Senator Obama below.

We appreciate hearing from you.

Sincerely,

Obama for America,

---

Given the grave threats that we face, our national security agencies must have the capability to gather intelligence and track down terrorists before they strike, while respecting the rule of law and the privacy and civil liberties of the American people. There is also little doubt that the Bush Administration, with the cooperation of major telecommunications companies, has abused that authority and undermined the Constitution by intercepting the communications of innocent Americans without their knowledge or the required court orders.

That is why last year I opposed the so-called Protect America Act, which expanded the surveillance powers of the government without sufficient independent oversight to protect the privacy and civil liberties of innocent Americans. I have also opposed the granting of retroactive immunity to those who were allegedly complicit in acts of illegal spying in the past.

After months of negotiation, the House passed a compromise that, while far from perfect, is a marked improvement over last year's Protect America Act. Under this compromise legislation, an important tool in the fight against terrorism will continue, but the President's illegal program of warrantless surveillance will be over. It restores FISA and existing criminal wiretap statutes as the exclusive means to conduct surveillance - making it clear that the President cannot circumvent the law and disregard the civil liberties of the American people. It also firmly re-establishes basic judicial oversight over all domestic surveillance in the future.

It does, however, grant retroactive immunity, and I voted in the Senate three times to remove this provision so that we could seek full accountability for past offenses. Unfortunately, these attempts were unsuccessful. But this compromise guarantees a thorough review by the Inspectors General of our national security agencies to determine what took place in the past, and ensures that there will be accountability going forward. By demanding oversight and accountability, a grassroots movement of Americans has helped yield a bill that is far better than the Protect America Act.

It is not all that I would want. But given the legitimate threats we face, providing effective intelligence collection tools with appropriate safeguards is too important to delay. So I support the compromise, but do so with a firm pledge that as President, I will carefully monitor the program, review the report by the Inspectors General, and work with the Congress to take any additional steps I deem necessary to protect the lives - and the liberty - of the American people.

----------------------

Paid for by Obama for America

Or, is this just really old news, and I'm one of the last to receive it?

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