Beyond all the Right talking points - nothing to worry about unless you've got Al Qaeda on your speed dial, we need these tools for the 21st century battle against terrorists, and all that - and who doesn't think those messages are crafted deep with the RNC-Bush-message machine? - one of the most astonishing points about all of this is we have no idea who was spied on illegally and why. Literally no idea, other than the group who got the accidental document proving they were spied on that revealed the whole affair. Don't you wonder deep down that maybe the Right fought so hard about this because it is really damaging who they did listen to? And that's maybe what Comey and Ashcroft had issues with, that really the illegal program and the President's orders were also used for political ends? Can you imagine what the Right would have done if Al Gore would have won the 2000 election, 9/11 happened on his watch, he sat in the classroom during it for 7 minutes, he held secret energy meetings without inviting the energy companies, and was found to be illegally spying on Americans, in an article the Times held until after the election, etc. etc. etc.? The left needs to learn to fight and not be out-messaged so easily, and that learning curve is beyond the skills of the current Congress, but not beyond the skills of the recent organizing online driven by this blog and others like it, and the groups like the ACLU and the EFF. Yesterday was just a marker on the trail. And I believe this battle will eventually reveal to all, oh that's why they fought so hard to not let the program see the light of day.

I guess that this is where the "democratic" part of "democratic republic" comes in, seeing as the "republic" part just failed us miserably yesterday.

And to those who don't know what I mean, I'm not referring to the two parties involved in the horrendous FISA bill that just passed and became law, which for all practical purposes are one party that might as well be called Demopublican or Republicratic.

A republic refers to the republican, or representative form of government that we have in the US. Democratic means that the people still have a say in how this government is run, be it directly (which is not the case at the federal level in the US), or indirectly, through our elected representatives, and the unelected officials that they appoint (which is how our government works at the federal level).

And since the "republican"--i.e. representative--part of our government failed us yesterday, we need to invoke the "democratic" part, through the courts, through our donations, through ad, email and blogging campaigns, and at the ballot box. This heinous law must be reversed, and the people responsible for it must be dealt with, as our legal and political process allows, and as befits them. Obviously, despite his shameful flip-flop on FISA, Obama needs to be elected president. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't continue to push him on this and other issues where he disappoints. As for the others, some of them simply need to go, and others need to feel the heat from us--primary challenges, ad campaigns, no donations, etc.

Forget about the nearly (but not entirely) useless establishment media. WE are the true fourth branch of government--if we choose to be so, and do so smartly and aggressively.

Sorry if this comes across as pedantic, but I'm beyond being angry at this point. This is about method over madness--our method versus their madness.

To dump Pelosi and Feinstein as soon as we can. They've had their chance!

www.cindyforcongress.org

That's great! I like oxymorons. Here's some more oxymoronic fun.

Just combine any of the following words with GOP or Republican

patriotic

honest

intelligent

forthright

noble

wise

considerate

pious

compassionate

Man that's fun, good times, good times.

Now back to reality. I was skeptically hopeful Obama would be more liberal than I expected. Sadly, after the FISA fiasco, I am even more disappointed than I expected. The Dems that allowed this to happen must be removed from office. (Why the Dems? Well, I expect Rethuglicans to be craven bottom feeders, so getting them out of office is assumed.)

- JFP

However this does not apply to U.S. citizens. only foreigners and foreigners living in the U.S. The new FISA does NOT allow warrant less wire tapping on U.s. citizens.

You really don't understand do you...

I assume that if the suits are dismissed before the law gets voided in part they still are gone, aren't they?

Not necessarily. I presume that it will proceed this way -- the telecoms will move to dismiss on the ground of the immunity this law gives them. The plaintiffs will then argue that the telecom immunity provisions are unconstitutional (because it denies them due process, because it constitutes a "taking" without the just compensation that is constitutionally required, that it constitutes a Congressional usurpation of Article III powers).

If the district judge finds the law constitutional and dismisses the lawsuits, then the plaintiffs can (and surely will) appeal to the 9th Circuit and, if they take the case, to the Supreme Court. If they win on appeal, the suits would be reinstated.

In my opinion governments will spy on their citizens regardless of it's legal or not, but I donated to the ACLU today. I only wish that I was rich so that I could donate more and to other groups.

Also bernbart you can't be serious?!

Mr Greenwald is there any chance you would dedicate a post to the Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement aka ACTA? It's the latest assault on the Fourth Amendment under the guise of intellectual property.

Glenn:

You mentioned three forces behind the FISA bill - the lobbiests, the pundit class, and the administration.

We are taking action against the bill, and we are taking action against right-wing Democrats.

What else can we do?

The lobbiests and administration are probably out of reach for the moment, but is there any way that we can deal with the pundit class? Can we attack their mendacity with ads like we are doing against congressmen?