Couldn't one argue that they feel that the group of Senators that have been briefed on the program are knowledgeable, smart people who have looked over the details and judged it to be a sound program?

You mean like Russ Feingold, Ron Wyden, Harry Reid and Dick Durbin -- all members of the Intelligence Committee (the last two ex officio) who voted against the new FISA bill?

Is that how you think Senators should cast votes to overhaul our 30 year eavesdropping framework ("hey, that guy over there thinks it's a good idea and he's smart, so I'll vote like he does; I don't need to know anything") -- sort of like how GOP Senators and Bush followers kept saying: "If the NSA and our President says we need this, then we should give it to them and not question it."

That's the mentality you favor?

I know in some of your previous blogs you mentioned that, despite any single issue, this issue in particular, Obama is decidedly different from McCain, still a better option for the White House, etc. However, when/if liberals all vote for Obama en masse, isn't that really just giving permission to candidates to do this in the future? Shouldn't there be a consequence to such a horrible vote (i.e loss of votes/support, the only thing politicians understand)?

And, isn't it possible Barack Obama, as the new figurehead and effective leader of the Democratic party, could have swayed enough fellow Dems to either fillibuster the bill or vote it down? He's the purported candidate who's going to bring the country together, he should be able to bring his own party together.

Couldn't one argue that they feel that the group of Senators that have been briefed on the program are knowledgeable, smart people who have looked over the details and judged it to be a sound program?

-- evenson

I suppose they (and you) could argue that. But then they (and you) could read Feingold's statement on the floor of the senate. Then they (and you) might want to alter their argument. Dontcha think?

Hint: It's posted in Glenn's update.

P.S. Glenn beat me to it.

For 'male enhancement' buy the suggested e-male products. The male neocon needs to apply the product as advised by the DoJ.

The Attorney General request,

medication for schizophrenic.

We are missing God's Voice?

Speak Yiddish in jail cells.

Well, I certainly don't favor that mentality. I was just trying to present a possible counter-argument to what was a very bold argument (i.e.:"they have absolutely no idea whether that is true. None. Zero. To assert that is simply to make assertions with no basis whatsoever."). I'm happy to say that you have very effectively shot me down.

My own personal view is that the Democrats failed us. I especially like your comparisons to the opinions of John Mitchell and Richard Nixon. I remember not too long ago being able to look back at those views and laughing about it. Today, of course (at least in Washington), Mitchell and Nixon are to be considered pillars of wisdom. Astute Constitutional scholars, even.

Can one still acquire copies of the Nixon/Frost interviews? If so, every Democrat who voted AYE should receive a copy.

Keep doing what you do, Glenn.

--Bill Evenson

But maybe AYE makes more sense, as Congress was just following Bush's orders.

Shooter claims that the data mining done by the NSA in the TSP is the same kind of thing that Amazon.com or the Sierra Club does. I think he's mistaken in many ways, but one in particular comes to mind.

When someone submits information to Amazon.com or the Sierra Club, they agree to that entity's privacy policy and information usage policies (link at sig). True, most people don't read the fine print and generally trust that there will be no abuse of privacy or confidentiality. Regardless, the person consents and if there is a breach of those policies, there is legal recourse.

When the NSA "data mines" (and I would posit no one has any idea what that actually means, but, regardless) communications from phone conversations or internet communications, there is no agreement on the part of anyone and there's no means of legal recourse for the individual whose privacy has been invaded. If every international phone call was preceded with a message asking for your consent to have the call monitored by the NSA, then it would be the same thing. If there was a mechanism to sue for inappropriate use of your personal information, then it would be the same thing.

It's a small difference, but an important one since there's no negative feedback for any abuse that comes from the monitory and history suggests that in such cases, there is always abuse (see: Church Commission).

"The ACLU's National Security Project."

Wow. What a name! It sounds like "The Democrats' Litigation Reform Project." Or "The United Nations' Spending Control Project." Or "The Cuban Freedom and Democracy Project." Or "The Robert Mugabe Better Government Project."

You realize none of that makes sense.

Can somebody please remind me what we might find on the short list of the ACLU's contribution(s) to "National Security"?

You realize you're deliberately misunderstanding what's happening here, right?

Quite seriously, one might be able to argue that the ACLU tries to protect civil liberty principles in the face of increased national security measures.

That's actually what they do. Its a fact, not 'arguable'.

In that respect, whether you agree with the ACLU or not, they would be best regarded as "The National Security Counter-weight."

But a "National Security Project"? Yeah, right.

So this rant is all because you disagree with the title of the effort? If that wasn't so childish I'd considered it idiotic, save that the two are not discordant and you demonstrate them time and again.

Ass.

I'm dying to know. Has the 'signing statement' been released yet?

I know there has to be one...

Anyone heard??? How much of this really weak law is Bush going to choose to disobey.

And, has there been any reaction from the international business and diplomatic communities? I'd think this would send shock waves through the very spines of those 2 groups at least...

Will hard encryption devices now become mandatory for them to conduct business? I'd want to be selling that stuff right now.

Well, that and shredders for when the 'loyal Bushies' leave office...

Pinky's Shredder Service. Open 24 hours. If you'll be dead if you can't shred it, call us to avoid the fuss... Mobile units parked and waiting all across Washington DC. Operators standing by...