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Thursday, July 10, 2008 12:00 AM

Interview with ACLU re: constitutional challenge to new FISA law

Jameel Jaffer, the Director of the ACLU National Security Project, explains why the new FISA law violates the 4th Amendment and is even broader than the President's illegal NSA program

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Friday, July 11, 2008 05:10 PM

@Mr. Snoid

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It's right down below the box in which you type comments. It won't even take mass demonstrations, sit-ins or Molotov cocktails. If you want to drink a couple of Aquavit Mary's before writing to complain, go ahead.

Friday, July 11, 2008 05:07 PM

The fallacy of the excluded middle

Don't like our current arrangement? Go to the telecoms and tell them that cell phones should be banned and fiber optics shut down.

This is all really easier to take with an Aquavit Mary. The flavors blend so well the drink isn't terribly harsh, just pleasantly spicy.

Friday, July 11, 2008 05:05 PM

Some intelligence required

Instead of hanging on Glenn's every word, Read the FINAL FISA bill.
— bernbart

But as you have already spectacularly demonstrated earlier in the thread, it doesn't do any good to read it if you can't understand it.

Indeed your earlier misinformation forcefully reminded me of the following dialogue:

Otto: Apes don't read philosophy.
Wanda: Yes they do, Otto, they just don't understand it.

Friday, July 11, 2008 05:02 PM

@Major Traffic Jam

Ah, so you're a 9/11 conspiracy theorist.

Not at all! As far as I know, those guys just happened to be at the airport, recognised each other, and you know, they started bullshitting about the wild times they had in college, and decided on one more good prank for old times sake. And maybe things got out of hand, a little. I doubt there was any conspiracy. It was just one of those off-the-cuff, spur of the moment things. I bet if any of the hi-jackers had survived, and a reporter asked them, they would have said "I dunno, it seemed like a good idea at the time. I'm sorry, I'm just such an impetuous guy"

No conspiracy at all. Maybe too many Slutty Mary's, but then again, I wonder what kind of mess Paul Daniel Ash will get into when he drinks 'em.aga again

Friday, July 11, 2008 04:58 PM

@awklib

Now *that* is some serious geeking. Holy crap, bring me three drinks now. What's scary is I'm tempted to go back and look at it again.

Friday, July 11, 2008 04:57 PM

@ myshooter242.com

1) UT is one of the more "powerful" anti-administration blogs in the country.

2) We know that there are Republican-paid trolls charged with disrupting such blogs.

3) Shooter; constantly here, constantly posting, never really engaged or engaging, never learning or modifying positions, constantly repeating RWA talking points.

4) The surprising "I'm really voting for Obama" claim is the perfect cover for a paid Republican operative.

One question, Shooter. Did the RNC contract you signed stipulate that WMD must be continually be emphasized as the reason for the war? Even if it makes you look like an idiot and blows your cover? 'Cause WMD is out. The new explanation is OIE (oil, Israel, empire).

Friday, July 11, 2008 04:46 PM

FISA in pictures!

Not sure if this has been posted here in comments, but this has got to be the definitive source if you've got nothing to do on a Friday night and want to geek out on this shit (link in sig)

http://www.ketchupandcaviar.com/politics/understanding-recent-changes-to-fisa-a-visual-guide-flowchart/

Friday, July 11, 2008 04:46 PM

@Derbig Mooser

Ah, so you're a 9/11 conspiracy theorist. Really, no more needs to be said. You should know that there are not likely to be many people that agree with you on that score even here, Glenn included, but you're welcome to your delusions, (though yourself being even a Yiddish or Russian speaking lew might want to consider what side of this nihilist jihad you prefer, given the numerous theories that put you dead center in the middle of the plot- personally I might add. Those are equally difficult to disabuse the 'cognitively determined' of).

I've posted before my theory that 9/11 conspiracies are more likely to be planted by the right to undermine the left (which, btw, has been terrifically successful, not least in infecting otherwise useful advocates like yourself with ideological spongiform encephalophy) than to have even a shred of veracity. Even more likely, it has been taken up and promoted as useful propaganda for communist interests not since the early 20th century equipped with many, (and here I'm speaking of those who wouldn't hesitate to identify themselves as such, not the mainstream boogie men of the rightist truthy machinations). And these views from someone not even hostile to conspiracy theories- like that the oil companies are manipulating prices of refined crude, or that the Murdoch empire and corporate interests are suppressing science they don't like etc. etc. Then again, I've also posted that some people have a need to believe other than what their lying eyes or rational mind might have. Again, more power to you on that score. While you're at it, don't lie down for any of these shills- take Glenn right on for spreading his pro-government agitprop!

Chris Sinnard, feel free to point out to me where I've made a specious correlation argument. You should know that my proof started with causation- i.e. that we are, strictly speaking, more likely to find individuals that are planning to commit acts of terrorism by being aware of their existence and having information about them than otherwise- not the other way around (not that such people exist outside the US government mind you, but speculatively thinking here). But seriously though, have at it.

Friday, July 11, 2008 04:45 PM

My dad has a barn! Let's put on a show!

... the peaceful and historically proven direct action tactics of mass demonstration, sit-ins, boycotts, marches, etc. --adnoto

The manner in which movements build, and in which these kinds of direct actions occur is not as simple as it appears. It is an organic process, and it requires enough people (a lot of them) feeling oppressed enough (for ex: US citizens under Jim Crow, or Indian citizens under British colonial rule...) to follow a tested charismatic leader (i.e., MLK or Ghandi, both of whom served time in jail).

These conditions do not pertain today. It's partly a kind of genius on the part of the Bush regime that no oppressive draft is in force making the overseas military loss of lives and limbs felt in virtually every household. Maybe the apparently incipient economic crisis will precipitate that kind of movement.Maybe. When our government starts disappearing us and our loved ones all kinds of hell-raising might break loose. [I express myself poorly.] But ya can't make it happen perched by a keyboard or by direct mail appeals.

If you have a better idea,...

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