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Monday, July 7, 2008 12:00 AM

Beltway myth: "The left-wing base" vs. "the American people" on Iraq

Mara Liasson falsely claims that "the American people" only want to leave Iraq when "conditions on the ground" permit it.

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Monday, July 7, 2008 08:33 AM

"Meet The Press'' was great yesterday

Guest co-hosts Mr. Nadal and Mr. Federer were much more entertaining - and just as informative - as the usual collection of conventional wisdom spouting suits & skirts that pollute that time period and channel on Sunday morns.

Evidently the entire city called in sick.

We're all a little better off for it.

Because Mr. Nadal and Mr. Federer were so good, unfortunately, I missed the wisdom and guidance of the Fox ""All-Stars''.

And I here Wolf Blitzer hosted his 10th Anniversary Bloops & Blunders Special of his weekly blabfest.

Word is that Cheney guy killed once again.

On behalf of me - and thousands of regular folks, let me thank you Glenn for once again doing the heavy lifting and analyzing the nonsense and informing us - the unwashed - of the weekly "wisdom'' of the Smart and Serious Washington cult.

Monday, July 7, 2008 08:34 AM

Iraq's Civil War

The reason there's a civil war in Iraq is because we went in in the first place and pushed the whole thing over. Armies are not constructive entities. When you use military force, you destroy. It's all an army CAN do.

There are times when armies are necessary. I disagree that any nation needs a permanent standing army, but that's a debate for another time. But even when they're necessary, armies are destructive.

The longer we keep troops in Iraq, the worse things will get. Armies never make things better.

We didn't need to go to war with Iraq at all. There was no cassus belli, as many of us pointed out at the time. We. Are. The. Aggressors. What we do in Iraq, today, is no better than what Germany did in France and Russia and Poland in the beginning of the last century. It is no more justified, it is no more right, it just as bad. We can't keep doing it until some honor comes out of it. Honor doesn't work that way. We can't keep doing it until the country gets better... you can't create out of destruction.

Actually, comparing us to Nazi Germany risks Godwin's law. So: We are acting EXACTLY like Athens in the Peloponnesian War. We go in, we preach Democracy as some sort of high moral good, we take out the leaders either directly or by funding agents, and then we get de facto control of the country and its resources. At least Athens got paid tribute by its subject nations, which enriched the population of Athens. In the U.S., the leaders use the subject nations as a method to get money from the U.S. population to U.S. contractors.

Athens lost that war, in the end. I'm pretty sure we're going to lose as long as we keep playing the same game.

Monday, July 7, 2008 08:36 AM

-- orbitboy

I've been receiving them also, and delete them. I fail to see how raising money for Chris Dodd helps in this issue. I wish Dodd would cease.

Monday, July 7, 2008 08:36 AM

Correction

"That can remain so until the decision is about some future policy and not about the hard reality of right now" should read "...can remain so as long as..."

Monday, July 7, 2008 08:39 AM

@Reality Kid

I'm not sure what he's promised, and I don't know that it matters what he may promise right now about operational needs in the current war zones. He's not the president.

I just note recent reporting, as I've read it and understand it, stipulating no claim to be an expert or to appear to be posing like Gen. Patton. There's the appearance of a significant problem for the forces in each zone, based on the numbers and what brigades are ready to deploy (apparently none), are down, or committed elsewhere in the world.

A normal person, and I am at least normal, would ask if something's got to give.

Where does spin on the military situation become irresponsible blather and just plain nonsense?

Monday, July 7, 2008 08:40 AM

Evidence

James T Kirk says

"Most Americans" put Iraq on the back burner.

In the spirit of Glenn's article, please provide evidence that "most Americans" have lost interest in Iraq. It seems to me you're doing the same thing Liasson did: asserting that your own individual opinion is the opinion of the majority, without any evidence at all.

Monday, July 7, 2008 08:40 AM

@casual_observer

My assessment is that the American people do not trust the Bush administration to make or present a fair and accurate analysis of the facts on the ground in Iraq, so they would prefer a hard and fast timetable for withdrawal regardless of what the administration says. Whether they would be so distrustful of a new Obama administration and its assessment is less clear, but I would expect there to be at least some honeymoon.

Monday, July 7, 2008 08:46 AM

The Muddled Middle

The problem is not that the American people believe what they hear on tv or even radio, given the relatively small numbers of viewers and listeners. The problem is that politicians start believing them and move to this mythical Center. –--Steplow

I don't know – I mean we are talking about Fox News here. it seems that public does understand that Fox is faux news – I mean, look at the ever srinking Republican Party and Bush's poll numbers.

Don’t know what politicians believe but I do not that this talk of Obama moving right isn’t really correct. The FISA Bill flip-flop is not right – its moving into Bush’s criminal conduct – and I don’t think conservative voters should be confused with people that like criminal conduct. In NO way do I think that Obama is so stupid that he doesn’t know this, doesn’t know he is lying, but apparently he, like Bush, think we’re stupid enough to pull this big lie on the FISA Bill or partisanly divided not care. Obama is quite willing to tell those voters that know it’s a lie to get lost.

If Josh Marshall, with his comment on just drink a brew (forget it happened, or simply disregard it) is surely disheartening – but now it seem Glenn has joined this pretense on the last day before the Fourth Amendment is eviscerated.

Obama is in fact breaking his oath of office along with other Dems like Nancy Pelosi – and he IS gettig away with because Dems, as group want to pretending it never happened. This is why John Kerry's campaign failed and Kerry lost his ratings and why Dems really need to control of their candidates – there are always those that could actually go for Bob Barr instead as Obama, in fact Barr might be just the diversion the Republican Party devised to draw off the lost Republicans and independents – whom are not blinded by partisan hogwash in just enough numbers to make Obama lose – and really McCain isn’t that far off in the polls that Obama couldn't realistically lose this campaign on his gamble – which now has because the Democratic Party’s gamble on partisan attempt to disreguard a lie. Murdock, in this fashion, created the conditions to let everyone tell lies.

Anyway, this is why Dems need to scream in numbers too great to ignore. Tomorrow won’t be a glory day for Dems – it seems that Rove has other cards that I've may not have noticed until now – and we've seen this before, Obama is such a moron, that outlaw foray into the criminal conduct of the Republican Party could cost every hard working political supporter of Obama EVERYTHING.

The thing that Karl Roves knows is that this middle that even Glenn seems to mis-understand is made up of people that won't find Obama lies so palatable and because THEY ARE NOT BLINDED BY THE PARTISAN AMBITION OF THE LEFT- thus it is not the middle that Obama will gain, it is the middle that Obama will lose. Do you understand?

And you guys have Kos saying I won't reward bad behavior "but Kos will vote for Obama if not giving money to him"? Jeebus - in the end Obama only cares about votes anyway so how is that not "rewarding" him? It's the kind of thing that sends Indy's like myself right over into Bob Barrs court - and it seems Dems are falling once again for this trick same as they did in Kerry's campaign.

So anyway, tomorrow is D-Day for the Fourth Amendment and very possibly Obama's D-Day too. Maybe in 2012 - you guys will get it right. One can only hope.

All Republicans have to do now is start funding money to Bob Barr campaign and let him come off as the Guy THAT won't ever trade in the US Constitution and start giving Barr face time on conservative owned TV Media. That will all she wrote for Obama campaign stupidity.

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