Letters posted here are associated with the following article:

293
Letters
Tuesday, June 24, 2008 12:00 AM

Hoyer hails FISA bill as "a significant victory for the Democratic Party"

The House majority leader argues that giving the GOP what it wanted on eavesdropping removed it as an election issue. That's the same mentality that led Democrats to authorize the war in 2002.

The letters thread is now closed.

View:
Tuesday, June 24, 2008 09:39 PM

But Seriously...

I luv ya, LWM, and Ron, too.

Tuesday, June 24, 2008 09:27 PM

I'm really tired of repeating myself

Damn, where's Ron when you need him?

Tuesday, June 24, 2008 09:24 PM

bystander

That was a lovely recollection. Both of my parents were raised on ranches, my dad was from Nebraska, and ran away to NYC when he was 18. I still have a letter from Fiorello LaGuardia to my grandfather promising to find him. My mother was raised on a ranch in Northern California that the local Indians called the heart of God. Unfortunately for me, my parents would have none of that for their children, I was purposely kept from hard work and calloused hands. Unfortunately for my parents, I saw the value of living off the land some time ago, and bought a beautiful but small piece of land in Oregon. I still haven't cut the suburban cord, but it won't be long. I look forward to making my own excellent memories.

Tuesday, June 24, 2008 09:18 PM

Getting a Refund

For those who've asked about my request for a partial refund of my donations to the Obama campaign, the answer is yes--they agreed to refund the money.

Again, I support Obama, and have for a while. But my first donation of the campaign season was to Dodd's campaign even though I knew he couldn't win. But he's been consistently right on this issue that so many Democrats in congress seem so wrong on.

I hope Obama comes around. If he does, my donations will start to flow again. If he doesn't, he'll get my vote in November but no more cash. He's already been weak on a couple of issues. He can't afford to be weak on defending the Constitution.

Tuesday, June 24, 2008 09:10 PM

FISA/Obama/Leadership

I apologize for all for not having time to read all the posts today and forgive me if this is a repeated opinion:

I know many of you fully support the Democratic nominee, as I have always, however, there is more at stake here. The person today who has the most value to sway votes, mainly due to intense media exposure, is B. Obama. So where has he been other than supportive of FISA, and certianly silent regarding FISA contents?

My prediction: Obama will stay silent on FISA, except for his continued support of this fascist bill. FISA will pass, with his vote along with a healthy majority in congress. Obama supporters here, will continue to support him, in spite of his vote and broken promise. Sad, so very sad. Once this comes to pass, I will forever give up on traditional politics as we know it and help create the impossible formulation of a viable third party. This will be our only hope as it is painfully clear that the Democrats and Repulbicans have, for all practical purposes, merged into the same think tank.

It also may be a good opportunity for someone in the telecom industry who will guarantee, in writing, that they will not give up personal telephone/email/etc. records unless a lesser Gran Jury orders it to. God knows, we cannot trust the SCOTUS or the executive and now the legislative branch to decide what is right for Americans. Of course, in this scenario, they would be shut down, sort of like China threatens GOOGLE if they provide uncensored links to all.

Look people, this is far more serious than even GG can elequoently describe. We will survive this onslaught of our liberties, I am sure, but the USA will forever be a darker place.

Tuesday, June 24, 2008 09:01 PM

In praise of tractors (not the sad, haunted ones in old Soviet posters)

I'm no farmer, but I've slopped hogs and driven tractors under the watchful eyes of those who were. I'm no philosopher, but I've been given the grace to see on occasion with a philosopher's eyes. I'm no artist, but I know what Gertrude Stein meant when she said that a good painting was one that let you fall asleep under its gaze. I'm no poet, no scientist, no banker, no soldier, and certainly no politician, but I can on occasion see human genius in all of them. I consider that a gift, and I'm grateful for it.

I am a tolerable cook, at least when friends are hungry, and the cook in me says this: Let's honor Bucky's absent spirit, and GC!'s present one, L.W.M., and not let pride stand in the way of a little peace. Lord willing, of course, and the creek don't rise....

Tuesday, June 24, 2008 08:59 PM

bystander, etc yes.

O happy day when the market gardeners come to town. The mule wagons and the saddle bags are filled, and the wagon is stacked high with greens and fruit.

It is more of a beautiful than if those mules carried fine gold.

(inspiration from Persian, Rumi)

O happy day, happy day, O happy.

O rejoicing. Bringing in the sheaths

O, happy land tender, and if we only knew.

O (a bit of Vergil). We must cultivate the garden.

(Voltaire)

Tuesday, June 24, 2008 08:53 PM

Rewarding bad behavior.

What bothers me the most is the process surrounding the granting of these letters of marque. Certainly every company will desire a certification that any spying they've done was authorized and to be granted immunity.

Why then hand the administration this stick? Why not grant immunity from prosecution on the recommendation of congress? Surely these dispensations are valuable, why give the attorney general's office the privilege of blackmailing any company that's sofar taken a principled stand?

Watch Qwest's outcome, it won't be pretty.

Tuesday, June 24, 2008 08:52 PM

Agreed, LWM

I treasure William Timberman's insights. I didn't even know the translation capabilities of Wiki/Google until I had to decipher William's comments. Didn't want to miss what he was saying. Some expressions took longer than others to decipher, but were well worth the effort.

What is it this week? Battle fatigue? Full moon? Unrequited love? Simple exhaustion coming too soon in the week?

And, pmorlan. Thanks for the dday heads up. G_d. Wouldn't it be great if it were a blocked kick and not just Lucy snatching the football away. Hope does spring eternal.

Tuesday, June 24, 2008 08:49 PM

Spying as a sign of mental illness? Is anyone not spying and sifting through our records?

From an article posted here on the right side:

Feds sued over alleged mining of immigrants data

By TOM HAYS Associated Press Writer

Jun 24th, 2008 | NEW YORK -- The U.S. government secretly gathered personal data on more than 130,000 immigrants in the run-up to the war in Iraq, according to a purported FBI document attached to a lawsuit filed Tuesday demanding more detail about how the information was gathered and used.

The New York Civil Liberties Union's lawsuit against the Justice Department alleges that federal authorities may have violated the privacy of the immigrants under a previously undisclosed FBI program the document refers to as "Operation Darkening Clouds."

The NYCLU sued after the FBI rejected a Freedom of Information Act request last year to disclose more details about the program. The civil rights group says the FBI replied that "it neither confirms nor denies the existence of the activity or records concerning this subject."

The alleged data-mining efforts "run counter to our core American values by unfairly singling out immigrants and making them targets of suspicion and scrutiny," Donna Lieberman, NYCLU executive director, said in a statement.

The FBI and the Justice Department had no immediate comment.

The suit filed in federal court in Manhattan says the document — titled "U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services/Fraud Detection and National Security Unit Automated Systems" — was originally obtained last year under an earlier Freedom of Information demand by Yale Law School students. The students sought the information for a project examining the government's data-mining of computer records as an investigative tool since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

The five-page document describes the benefits of background checks by the Office of Fraud Detection and National Security, a Homeland Security offshoot formed in 2003 to fight immigration fraud. It concludes with a brief reference to the immigrant database.

"During the pre-invasion of Iraq, FDNS personnel pulled together over 130,000 immigration records which were the cornerstone of Operation Darkening Clouds (FBI) and Operation Liberty Shield (DHS)," it says.

Liberty Shield was unveiled by the White House in 2003 as a "comprehensive national plan" by the Department of Homeland Security to tighten borders and disrupt terror plots.

Without detailing "Operation Darkening Cloud," the document contained in the NYCLU suit describes how "immigration information and systems" aided federal investigations.

In one instance, it said, a "sweep of immigration databases" turned up the names of foreign students at Midwest universities suspected of changing their majors to science at the request of an unnamed country that wanted to draft them for a prohibited nuclear arms program.

It says the information "resulted in a successful pitch of two of those students to assist the U.S. government in exchange for permanent resident alien status."

———

Associated Press writer Lara Jakes Jordan in Washington contributed to this report.

http://www.salon.com/wires/ap/us/2008/06/24/D91GQA8G0_immigrant_data_lawsuit/index.html

And hey, rat out your friends and get 'residency status'?

Most Active Letters Threads

342

A key British official reminds us of the forgotten anthrax attack

A vast array of establishment and expert sources do not believe this episode was really resolved.
323

Tough-guy John Bolton, hiding under his bed

As usual, right-wing pseudo-warriors are drowning in extreme cowardice.
162

Is Obama's civil liberties record understandable?

Was it unreasonable to expect him to adhere to his commitments regarding the Constitution?
154

Phil Carter's resignation from key detainee policy post

Many of the "War on Terror" policies he spent years condemning were ones expressly embraced by Obama.
99

Palin, Prejean: Beastly treatment for beauties

The governor turned author must fight what the pageant queen learned: Politics and hotness make strange bedfellows

View all »

Letters Help

Currently in Salon