HOUSE DEMS WHO CHANGED THEIR VOTE TO SUPPORT FISA BILL, GIVING IMMUNITY TO TELCOS, RECEIVED, ON AVERAGE, $8,359 IN PAC CONTRIBUTIONS FROM VERIZON, AT&T, AND SPRINT

Yes, and until the "libertarians" from Lew Rockwell to Reason and Cato who have catered to and pandered for this kind of corporate unaccountability in the past that has enabled and promoted this sort of thing finally cop to it, you'll have this problem. And they have demeaned the very concept of a "civil libertarian" in the process, guilt by assoociation with the latter term, and rightly so. Don't go over to an Eschaton thread and mention you are a "libertarian," or even a "civil libertarian" because that will ignite a conflagration that will toast you like a soft, white gooey marshmallow.

If this isn't the most self-serving load of crap I've ever seen, Mona, I'm not Ron Pauliac.

I choose to stay (almost always) out of the inane flamewars because they -- and some annoying antagonists, let it be noted, fight about other than libertarianism -- are a degradation of Glenn's comments section. Frankly, I read comments here less in part because of all this crap. (And know of at least one other very savvy regular who has also cut way back on commenting because of the declining quality of comments as they are taken over by snot-nosed, fighting kids.)

William and I have always been on the right side and that gauls the hell out of some of you. Deal with it. Shut up and listen. You might learn something. Henley did. Does it sink in? You'd better hope so. I may stop giving a shit.

The Senate's rules are less complex to me now than they were a year ago, but note that doesn't mean I'm not easily confused. I appreciate your parsing this out.

Go, Dodd!

dday has a diary up on Kos

We May Have Just Gotten The FISA Debate Extended

Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 10:38:21 PM EDT

(the operative word here is "may". It's entirely possible that the Senate could finish all of the bills they want to push out by Friday.)

Anyone watching C-SPAN? Senator Reid just informed his colleagues that, because of all the other bills in the queue (like the housing bill, and the Iraq supplemental), FISA may not get a vote until after the July 4 holiday recess.

This is honestly the best we can hope for with this bill. Sens. Dodd, Wyden and Feingold are ready to filibuster and gamely trying to get colleagues to do the same (Sen. Dodd's speech tonight was a bravura performance), but realistically there aren't the numbers to stop cloture. However, that could change if the delay continues. And getting this to the recess means being able to get in a lot of Senator's faces on their trips back home. In addition, there's going to be a very short window in August where a ton of must-pass bills have to get through Congress, and throwing FISA in with that mess means that anything can happen.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/6/24/223033/176/554/541517

What bystander said. Thanks, pow wow!

I wonder if there will be any protests outside and in the Senate halls tomorrow to remind Senators there are consequences to their vote. It would be great if there were and if those of us who can't make it to Washington do similiar protests at our Senators's local offices - kind of a coordinated attack if you will.

Well that response sent me on an interesting internet journey.

I hain't smert enuf to way in on dis issu. Ie; incivil liberatarianism. I jes pays my dus to de ACLU and hope fer da best. I also hain't quik enuf of ma feet to mix it up with dem folk at Atrios' place. I've no desere to be a roasted mellowmarsh. Thank ye very much fer da warnin'.

It would also be great if we could organiize protests at our local telecom offices considering they are bribing our reps to vote against our rights. We could also jam their phones for a change and let them know that they may be spying on us but we know what they're doing too.

Yes, I know that this is pretty much a done deal but I still think we need to do everything possible to create our own miracle. I'm not much good at sitting back just hoping something will happen. I think we need to make it happen or at least do everything humanly possible to do so.

We had Bart De Palma, Nozzle boffer, aka Anonymoose, David Byron and Eyes Wide Open and a host of other trolls whose names I've long ago forgotten - and the occasional "troofer".

It was just a smaller bar on a side street that moved to a main thoroughfare and a larger venue. More foot traffic.

I think I have stopped giving a damn. No matter how many times you explain it, it never sinks in. I don't mean you or some of the usual suspects. It is really telling that one of the few commenters here, WT, who has actually worked in local politics all his life gets nothing but continual abuse from the neophyte rabble here. He should leave. They don't deserve the benefit of his vast experience.

* * *

Good-bye to All that:

One day I was walking along a trench at Cambrin when I suddenly dropped flat on my face; two second later a whizz-bang struck the back of the trench exactly where I had been. The sergeant who was with me, walking a few steps ahead, rushed back: 'Are you killed, sir?' The shell was fired from a battery near Auchy only a thousand yards away, so that it must have arrived before the sound of the gun. How did I know that I should throw myself on my face?

* * *

To Walk on Hills

To walk on hills is to see sights
And hear sound unfamiliar.
When in wind the pine-tree roars,
When crags with bleatings echo,
When water foams below the fall,
Heart records that journey
As memorable indeed;
Head reserves opinion,
Confused by the wind.

* * *

Not Dead

Walking through trees to cool my heat and pain,
I know that David's with me here again.
All that is simple, happy, strong, he is.
Caressingly I stroke
Rough hark of the friendly oak.
A brook goes bubbling by: the voice is his.
Turf burns with pleasant smoke;
I laugh at chaffinch and at primroses.
All that is simple, happy, strong, he is.
Over the whole wood in a little while
Breaks his slow smile.

* * *