Thanks, Mom.

What makes one a Libertarian as opposed to a libertarian? What makes one a liberal as opposed to a conservative? Or a Democrat as opposed to a Republican?

c[_]

Interesting questions, but it appears as if the care cup is empty.

Wyden to Oppose Cloture for Wiretapping Bill

Tuesday, June 24, 2008

Washington, D.C. – U.S. Senator Ron Wyden (D-Ore.), a senior member of the U.S. Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, announced today that he would oppose new legislation amending the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) due to his continued opposition to a provision that would grant blanket retroactive immunity to any telecommunications company that participated in the President’s warrantless wiretapping program.

“This is not the first time that the President has pressured Congress into interfering in federal court cases to cover-up his attempts to secretly rewrite the law. Congress’s previous attempts to bail-out the President—from the Detainee Treatment Act to the Military Commissions Act—have not only failed to solve the legal mess, but have often provided cover for the Administration’s failed counterterrorism policies,” said Wyden.

“I see no reason for Congress to grant blanket immunity to companies that went along with the President’s wiretapping program for the better part of six years, even as it became increasingly clear that the legal foundation for this program was built on sand,” Wyden continued. “It is not the role of Congress to substitute its judgment for the judgment of the courts. And while this bill offers the illusion of a fair judicial process, in reality, as the House Republican Leadership has noted, this is a mere ‘formality.’”

Wyden was one of two members of the Senate Intelligence Committee to vote against the FISA Amendments Act in committee, due to his opposition to the telecom immunity provisions. During the committee mark up, Wyden offered an amendment that would for the first time extend warrant protections to Americans who travel overseas. Despite initial opposition to the “Wyden Amendment,” it is included in the current version of the legislation.

“In the digital age, an American’s relationship with his or her government should not depend on physical geography,” Wyden said. “While I have serious concerns about other parts of this legislation, I think history will recognize this amendment as an important achievement and a major step forward for privacy rights.”

http://wyden.senate.gov/newsroom/record.cfm?id=299642&

"We can improve Democrats."

You state this as if it is a given--almost an article of faith--the GOP is dead, but there's hope for the DEM.

But what if both parties are beyond recall?

What makes you so sure that the years-long slide of the Democratic party is reversible, while the GOP is not?

I don't have an argument to offer one way or the other on this, but I don't accept as gospel that the Democratic Party can be saved.

Ooops. I said Wyden would filibuster when I meant oppose cloture.

Let me say that I miss you, and some of the other usual suspects as well. I understand your reasons for staying away, at least I think I do, but for me, the benefits of commenting here outweigh the slings and arrows, even with some of the more reasonable voices absent.

I'm not entirely blameless in these flame wars, I realize, but I've always thought that this being a comments section and all, opinions should be as welcome as adjunct research, as long as they're considered opinions, and as long as the considerations which gave rise to them are offered in their defense. I also think that broadening the context is often as useful as narrowing it, and when I can contribute in that way, I try to.

I'd also say that pow wow or sysprog, for example, are unlikely ever to need a snarky one-liner, as no one is likely to take issue with what they provide, or get it into their heads to denounce them as warmongers, cabalists, elitists or obscurantists, and certainly not for weeks on end.

So...moderate on offense, moderate on defense is my aim, even if I've honored it more often in the breach than in the observance. Sorry to drag you into this today, but if I'm going to do justice to the libertarian view of things, it's a much easier task when I know you'll be listening.

Just saw this on huffpo. Dodd and Feingold are going to filibuster the FISA bill. I guess I was wrong on Dodd not doing it. I stand corrected. Read the story here http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/24/dodd-and-feingold-try-to_n_108963.html

Yeah, you gotta watch out for those simulacrums.

You know, if Nancy had some power to control which bills get debated, come up for a vote, or something like that...

'"It would be healthy if (the public) heard more about it… even if the resolution is the same..."'

Oh that's it: we're just ignorant. If we knew why they really voted for it, we'd understand. And they'd vote the same. So, really, it must us.

Watch out? As though their beady little eyes didn't surround every civilized campfire in the great American darkness as it is. Maybe it's that Eyes Wide Shut thing that prevents so many folks from seeing them for what they are.

I just got a response from Sen. Clinton to my email regarding the proposed FISA bill. It reads, in part:

Now, the Bush Administration has vowed to block any surveillance legislation that does not provide retroactive immunity to telecommunication companies. I believe that granting retroactive immunity under these circumstances is wrong and undermines accountability. To that end, I supported and co-sponsored efforts to strip this provision from the FISA legislation. I was discouraged to see that amendment fail the last time it was considered in the Senate. In the weeks to come, I will continue to work with my colleagues to pass an improved bill, one that takes the needed steps to defend our homeland while also defending and respecting our Constitution, our laws, and our privacy.

Doesn't that sound like it was written before the "compromise" was reached? Why can't these people ever respond to the actual question/issue? It's always a day late and a dollar short.