it will be time to look back and say, "Today's the day that fascist America truly started." It's our Reichstag fire.

Democratic legislative capitulations for years now. What disturbs me is that the frame--that Democrats are, in fact, an opposition party still pervades your writing. Its seeming more likely that, as a party, they have never been in opposition of FISA or the Iraq war, not even slightly. I find it unlikely that, with the advantages of both popular opinion and majority, they would be able to wrangle at least something that actually does seem like a compromise at the least. The fact that they couldn't even pull that off, and indeed, gave the Republicans more than they wanted, means that this was a rigged game from the beginning.

Not to sound to conspiratorial, but could this be an official hand-off of power--an "uncle" for the corporate powers to show that Democrats are worthy of caring for corporate welfare as efficiently and enthusiastically as Republicans.

Hume's Ghost

Didn't Clinton committ purgery?? Yea, he did actually and that was what he was impeached over. Not the fact he was getting oral sex in the Oval Office.

Please provide the list of names of these historians you mentioned. I would love to see their political affiliations.

Until the last Dem coward has caved and the dirty little FISA deal is signed, sealed and delivered I'm limiting most of my blog time to Glenn's posts and the letters on this site. Unfortunately, I don't know what else to say at this point. Sure I'm here to keep apprised, but mainly to read the other comments and feel some semblance of solidarity. No adequate words for the disgust I'm feeling right now...and that's saying something after four decades of active political involvement.

For me, this FISA capitulation is the final straw, and I see that I'm not alone. I am an American first and a liberal. I'm a registered Democrat ONLY because I have been assuming it was the party that embraced many of my liberal ideals.

In a way they still are, but over the past year I've noticed a strong resentment among Democratic politicians directed at us, and I think that has hardened into a near hatred of our bloggers. While the Republicans embrace their bloggers and hand feed them, Democrats seem much less inclined to work with us. The Democratic leaders especially. In fact the secrecy surrounding Steny Hoyer's compromise negotiations was designed to keep us from finding out and mobilizing...and it seems to have worked. Lesson learned.

The irony here is that the Democratic party despises it's base. Since 2004 we, the angry, energized progressives, have helped repair and re-energize the party from it's truly dismal 2002 version into a party that now controls both houses of Congress. We've donated tons of money, we've knocked on doors, we've encouraged qualified candidates to run, and enthusiastically supported them on our blogs. Where do you think the Democratic party would be today without us?

And this is our payback! A huge kick in the nuts (that's how it feels to me). Now that Obama has an army of young, enthusiastic (and naive?) supporters, they don't need us. To them we are the people who embarrass them by criticizing their MSM friends, we embarrass them when they cave, we call and argue with their staff. All they want is to be left alone to enjoy their prestige, their new power, and the flow of money from their new corporate friends.

It's time to cut our ties with the Democrats and concentrate on issues, and on defeating the bad politicians and supporting the good ones, independent of party (we desperately need new parties). I no longer want anything to do with the Reids and Hoyers and Rockefellers.

One more thing (long rant, I know), I found the following two posts immensely helpful in calming me down last night and I recommend them to all who, like me, need an alternative to our negativity.

Digby - Talk to the Hand

http://tinyurl.com/4r3p98

Hilzoy - FISA: Why it Matters

http://tinyurl.com/3ovxnr

Pete Hoekstra that is on CSpan this morning too.

Disgusting doesn't come close...

This will probably be the first election since I could vote that I won't be voting. I know that sounds childish and petulent but if the choices are such as they are (and Obama is STILL SILENT) then not voting is just a realization that we really have lost all control of our governmetn and to vote with hope in your heart for change is just flogging your heart on the granite that is the heart and mind of both political parties in America...

I might change my mind but golly gee, Batman, it's looking like the Joker wins again.

OK, so now I'm listening to my representative, Nancy Pelosi, defend this shitpile of a Bill. In watching the debate I'm struck at how pretty much every Republican loves the Bill. Way to go Democratic leadership. You're doin' a heck of a job Pelosi! She just said that this bill requires that the telecom companies to not spy on us. But, didn't we already have a law that supposedly prevented them from doing that in the first place, which this bill gives them a get of jail free card for violating?!?!?!? Oh, and she just thanked everyone involved with this bill for all of their hard work in getting it passed. FUCK!!!

I may likely vote for a Republican for the first time in my life come November. And if Obama doesn't do a lot to redeem himself after being silent on this topic I may vote against him as well (though not for McCain, by the way).

Excuse my foul language but all I can say is FUCK!!!

The previous FISA effort on behalf of the President failed. Presumably netroots and citizen outrage contributed to that. Now this capitulation. What has changed between then and now?

Is it simply a few months closer to the elections and Congress folks are much more conscious of their $$ warchests and the ability of telcos to fill them? Or has something else happened to make the Congress folks have much more disdain for netroots and citizen power than they did last time?

While the Congress folks are mostly of a despicable kind, let's not waste words on that. Think of them as weather vanes, pointing in the direction of the prevailing winds which get them reelected. What has changed the direction of the wind since a few months ago?

Craven, capitulating, loving the president, weak, etc., do not constitute explanations; they are only descriptions.

An example of an explanation - a far-fetched one to be sure, but in a different class from "cowardly, betrayers, etc."

The very top leadership of the Democrats know that an attack on Iran is imminent, and the political fallout of that will dwarf this FISA matter; so they can take telco dollars now and still retrieve their voters.

-- The "taking away of an election issue from the Republicans" is an explanation, but does not hold much water with me; aren't all the indications that FISA is not a winning issue for the Republicans?