Are a majority of US citizens against giving the government the surveillance powers granted by the FISA bill passed by the House today?

This is a very important issue but it is similar to slavery or more recently, the abortion issue. That was largely out of sight out of mind until there were graphic pictures and ads and fanatics (yes, fanatics) and over time a movement grew and it became a wedge issue. With slavery it was easier to see the evils and pernicious effects of it but it took fifty years and a civil war. The right did it with abortion and gay marriage, but it took time for those issues to become priority wedge issues or "household names" that could decide elections. It is the same with this issue, but it just won't have a major impact on this election. It will take some time. JMHO.

Nobody gives a shit about abortion anymore.

I was so happy to see Obama speak the other night, to finally hear someone in the MSM spotlight say that we don't have to give up the Constitution to guarantee our safety. What a letdown today to hear him BS about the FISA bill.

When the Republicans had the majority in Congress, no bill the leadership opposed even got to the floor (remember Hastert's "majority of the majority" rule?). Now all these Bush-backed bills the Democratic leadership say they don't support get voted on and passed, while the leadership whines about how powerless they are.

Being a Democrat means nothing. I will never again give to the Democratic party, but only to individual candidates who I know will stand up for progressive ideals.

I don't know. Some of those intelligence reports produce when Pat Roberts was in charge are (practically) fiction...

You think marching on Washington D.C. is something new? The last time that happened it was soldiers after returning from WWI. -- L.W.M.

Are you in your cups?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:March_on_Washington_edit.jpg

rachel is talking about nukes now.

Nobody gives a shit about abortion anymore.

http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200880530131

How could any reasonable person do anything but utterly forswear Obama, his campaign, his family, and anyone in the same party as him? That is a logical, rational, and entirely justified reaction.

:). As a non-politician with no responsibility to a constituency or to varied elements in a constituency, I don't have to do the expedient thing of balancing interests, etc.; I don't have to compromise on anything, I can just do what is right (and pay any personal cost, if applicable).

I diagnose our problem as arising from being captive to a two party system.

Enough of us have to defect out of the Republican/Democratic system but still vote and get a third party to the position of automatically qualifying for the ballot.

Once such a party is viable - the barrier to entry has been removed - then people will try to use that party as the vehicle to fulfill their political ambitions. Once there is a third party, each party has to cultivate its core constituency, and cannot take them for granted, because they have no where else to go.

We blame the politicians for not voting on principles or conscience, but instead calculating the consequences. How can we then be the same?

For all those who vote for Obama (or McCain) because he meets your requirements for the Presidency, good for you. For all those who vote for one of these because he is the lesser of two evils, you're doing the same thing as happened in Congress today - basing your actions on what you think the consequences of that action will be rather than fearlessly doing what you know to be right.

No need to dance around the issue. Obama has nothing to gain by his weasel words, and everything to lose. Anyone who'd not vote for him because he came out strongly against this bill was definitely not going to vote for him anyway. Instead, he's done more to disillusion his supporters.

And really, the people who are making excuses for Obama should wake up. Would they be making these same excuses if Hillary had been the nominee? I think not. So, why then does Obama get a pass?

He should be ashamed, as should Pelosi. Hoyer should be removed from office for malfeasance.

There was no need for the house to do a damned thing right now, so why did they come out with this piece of crap? They could have just sat on it, and it would have been a victory, and done them no harm in the elections.

I'm just incredibly disgusted. Obama wasn't my first choice, and yet I had hoped that he would be better than this, I guess I'd even been taken in by some of the hype to think he would be better.

Sorry, I'll vote for him, but I'm not going to fake any enthusiasm for him, or campaign, or donate for him. What a jackass he's made himself out to be.

--Ron

Yes, he was on from 7:15 to about 7:28 EST.

He sounded remarkably calm. He was very blunt. It was even harder to hear than read.

Are you in your cups?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:March_on_Washington_edit.jpg

-- William Timberman

Will you old farts please sit down and shut up or go play golf or shuffle board or something? Us whippersnappers are trying to save the world here for gosh sakes. Your constant quacking at each other is at the very least a distraction. Please, let Adnoto have his say.

No, I don't think that makes a good analogy. I don't think the supreme court can survive having another right-winger like McCain to nominate the next justice(s). The democrats aren't strong enough to object either. So, it's going to have to be a democrat for president to nominate them.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, this election has now been reduced to voting to save the supreme court. Voting 3rd party is voting for McCain. Withholding your vote is voting for McCain. I can understand not contributing to Obama (I'm not going to now), or campaigning actively for him, but actively helping to make things worse by allowing McCain to win is just suicide.

--Ron

<<For all those who vote for Obama (or McCain) because he meets your requirements for the Presidency, good for you. For all those who vote for one of these because he is the lesser of two evils, you're doing the same thing as happened in Congress today - basing your actions on what you think the consequences of that action will be rather than fearlessly doing what you know to be right.>>