Old news, perhaps, but I'm wondering, at least under a Bush administration, whether or not the wording of a FISA bill means much of anything anyway. This from an August 19, 2007 New York Times article by James Risen and Eric Lichblau titled "Concerns Raised on Wider Spying Under New Law" in which the attorney representing the administration refused to say "the administration considered itself bound by the (then FISA bill's) restrictions imposed by Congress".

I wonder if there'll be a classified signing statement attached to this pig when it's signed.

"At the meeting, Bruce Fein, a Justice Department lawyer in the Reagan administration, along with other critics of the legislation, pressed Justice Department officials repeatedly for an assurance that the administration considered itself bound by the restrictions imposed by Congress. The Justice Department, led by Ken Wainstein, the assistant attorney general for national security, refused to do so, according to three participants in the meeting. That stance angered Mr. Fein and others. It sent the message, Mr. Fein said in an interview, that the new legislation, though it is already broadly worded, “is just advisory. The president can still do whatever he wants to do. They have not changed their position that the president’s Article II powers trump any ability by Congress to regulate the collection of foreign intelligence.”

Yeah, I'm still voting for Obama, but I'm no longer going to donate to the DNC and donate instead to individual candidates and organizations such as Blue America.

No complaints. This game is far from over.

You come to a FISA thread, but don't know about the Church report. Now you ask for evidence of the Pentagon program.

Quick, somebody throw bucks a new shovel - he's worn his out.

always argue like 14 year olds? I guess that's mean, but they ignore anything that goes against their ideology, facts be damned. I guess that is an RWA characteristic, but the lack of logic is just frustrating. It is like they are programmed to not understand simple logic. Reminds me of the creobots over at PZ's place and the climate change denial kooks. I really think ignore works better. As a wise man said:

Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. - Mark Twain (attributed)

tisk tisk, there my little disgruntled liberal. And I'm sure you can provide some proof of these so-called military experts that were paid to sell the Iraq war on TV and newspapers? Or is this just more twisted speculation to justify your perspective?

I'm not saying you all are ignorant at all, but I can't help it if you feel that way. Maybe you and Baldie should get together this weekend and draw peace signs on the wall while singing beatles songs.

Works for soccer too. When I'm gardening they become weeds. ;-}

Does anyone have the text or cite of the compromise bill that allows telcos to receive immunity if the FISA judge determines the telcos at some point in the future turns info requested over to the feds if the prez asks for it even without a warrant?

I told my boyfriend about what Nancy said regarding the "taint" that the telecoms will experience from this compromise bill and he cracked me up when he said:

The only taint I see is that the telecoms taint going to get in trouble.

I've been trying to take a long view for some time now. I'm one of the few, apparently, not suffering from shattered illusions. Politicians are politicians, and presidents are by definition successful politicians.

This was going to take time 5 years ago, and it will take time now.

You are obviously anti-military

...enough with the self-hatred!

This was my email from Speaker Pelosi and my response back to her.

Dear Patty, I hope you had a chance to read the email that was sent from Senator Barack Obama. His message is critical for all of us who want to take our country in a New Direction. As Speaker, I can tell you that we need a Democrat in the White House and a strong Democratic majority in Congress to drive change forward. Our June 30th FEC deadline is vital to our success in November. All eyes will be on Democrats' fundraising totals as a measure of our party's unity and strength. I ask that you please help to show our commitment to across-the-board victories this November by making a contribution of $35, $50 or more at www.dccc.org/unitedforchange today.

Thank you for your support.

Dear Speaker Pelosi,

Boy do you have bad timing.

You actually have the nerve to say that it's critical for all of us to take our country in a new direction after you and 105 other Democrats voted today to eviscerate the 4th amendment and spit on the rule of law? The Democrats in the House not only sold out the American people but have also jeopardized Obama's election depending upon what he does in the Senate (and I don't mean just vote). Senator Obama is the de facto leader of our Party and if he doesn't stand up for us then why should we vote for him?

Al Gore told all of us that elections matter yet the Democrats in Congress have not held this administration accountable for any of their lawlessness. Indeed they have actually joined him in it. So why should any of us believe that elections matter?

I posted the following on the one of the blogs today:

In February of this year I received a letter from my congressional representative, John Yarmuth. In that letter Mr. Yarmuth told me:

"It is time for us to remember the principles of liberty that our nation was founded on, and reject unlawful measures that jeopardize our rights and civil liberties. Please be assured I will continue to do all that I can toward this end."

Today Representative Yarmuth voted along with 105 other Congressional Democrats to eviscerate the 4th amendment and to make a mockery of the rule of law. Just a short time ago I called his office and told his staff to tell him that he has lost my vote. That's a hard thing to say when I've been a Democrat my entire adult life but the treacherous vote by the Democrats today have convinced me it's time to register as an Independent.

Madame speaker you made history being the first woman speaker and now you've made history by having the Congress vote to trample on the Constitution. Please do not send me anymore emails.

Thank you.