If our military fights to protect our rights and freedoms then they shouldn't be fighting in Iraq, they should be taking up arms in Washington D.C - or are they just mere shadows of these men?

You are correct, sir, But as you know, just watch how soon people start worrying about the surveillance state as soon as their bellies are full, and the state wants to keep their bellies full because empty bellies start revolutions.

MaBelle... How anybody can/could seriously believe that Barack Obama was not, is not and will not continue to be a politician who believes more in political expediency and furthering his image and career is seriously deluded.

Give some of us older farts a little credit, Ma. This ain't our first rodeo. And that's exactly the kind of politician I want in my corner. That is the art and essence of government in our system, darlin'. Get used to it.

How anybody can/could seriously believe that Barack Obama was not, is not and will not continue to be a politician who believes more in political expediency and furthering his image and career is seriously deluded.

Now that he is the heir apparent to the Democratic throne - and knows it - prepare for more of his expediencies. I doubt that he has the spine to really "do" what he shouts about because he's too arrogant and too effing interested in furthering Barack Obama.

Well, good luck with it. There were a lot of us who pointed to his past behavior and actions (voting, comments) as a clue to what the so intelligent, educated left hemisphere might, just might possibly expect if he became the nominee.

Is it arrogance or delusion, or both, that keep people from acknowledging the truth when it's staring them in the face?

If Obama thinks he can get by without the votes of those who follow the FISA issue, who unequivocally believe it eviscerates the rule of law,

It shits all over the rule of law. They might as well give Gordon Liddy and the Watergate felons retroactive immunity, too. This bill sets a precedent: If the President tells you to do something illegal, you do it and you will never be punished for it. Someone who would vote for such a measure, or is too cowardly to try to stop it cannot be trusted with holding a government office. I guess if Blackwater's thugs shoot a bunch of people in the US, they can buy retroactive immunity, too.

who are willing to let McCain win over their own (principled) stand.

The rule of law and Constitution come first. If that means Obama loses, tough. This isn't a game where you try to win a trophy. It's a matter of liberty vs. fascism and call me old-fashioned, but I'm against fascism. You are obviously willing to live under it so long as the person in the White House has a "D" in front of his or her name.

BTW, as an aside, I think the belief that this episode exemplifies Obama "not having the guts to stand up to the Republitards" is a serious mis-reading of the situation.

Only to those who neither read nor write plain English. He's the equivalent of a receiver in football who drops a ball because he thinks he's going to get hit. The problem is, once the other side sees he's a coward, they will make it a point to hit him harder and harder because they know he's yellow and nobody wants to be shown up by a known coward.

I am sorry if you feel betrayed

Don't patronize me.

and like I said, I am disappointed by his statement. But your means do not achieve your ends.

Sure they do. If enough people tell Obama's fundraisers to drop dead because of FISA, and if enough White Flag Democrats like Hoyer et al get primaried next time around, they can either learn a lesson or be defeated. Either they'll quit fighting tooth and nail against their own constituents while bending over and spreading for the Republitards, or they can be harassed and/or defeated. They pull this nonsense because there is no punishment. So I'm going to do what I can to punish them.

Please, L.W.M. Whatever Ron Paul's deficiencies as a political thinker, he scarcely deserves that fate, even in metaphor.

I suspect that you're right about the depth of Obama's talent. Anybody who can turn Hillary Clinton into Hilarity Clinton in less than a year, and handle his right flank the way Col. Chamberlain handled the Union left at Gettysburg, deserves a bit of respect.

Whether or not he'll have the luck to go with it is another question. Frankly, I'd like nothing better than eight years of a revived social democracy, a modestly less threatening foreign policy, and the right-wing reduced to muttering about that man for the next generation. We shall see.

In any event, the surveillance state isn't going away just yet. The people as a whole aren't as uncomfortable with it as we are, perhaps because they don't understand it as well, but screaming at them and at Obama isn't going to help much. They'll need time to think, and time to observe its effects. We'll also need time to make our case.

Frankly, it would be nice to have the time, and I very seriously doubt we get it under McCain.

Obama is just another spineless Democrat!

Change agent? NO!

New breed of politician? NO!

at least he's more likely to appoint a Supreme Court justice that will rule it unconstitutional.

This is Sparta!

If Obama is the shrewd politician that Bobo Brooks now thinks he is and he can replicate the Chicago political machine on a national scale for a Democratic hegemony for the rest of the century while implementing a Huey Long style Share Our Wealth populism - minus the ravings about a Central bank, I'll rest easy. And Ron Paul can lick my balls.

Like I said before, the federal courts only started enforcing the fourth amendment in 1914 and the state courts finally got around to it in 1960! We'll get it back.

;-)