It does seem that we're on the same page, more or less. So is L.W.M., I suspect, despite his curmudgeonly compulsion to keep reminding us that there's nothing new under the sun. I still think that the structural problem is paramount. Even if we do find ways to create and maintain an informed and active citizenry, how are they to be integrated into a functional policy and management apparatus? Put another way, how can we benefit from the chaos inherent in any human interaction?

You're right that our situation has worsened since Viet Nam; you're also right that our history of Federalism has slowed our slide toward a kind of fascist utilitarianism, and that the liberalism of the New Deal isn't entirely innocent of contributing to that slide. Still, the hijacking of the Federal bureaucracy created to defend the interests of the powerless can't be laid at the feet of the liberals who created it, not if you're honest.

Participatory Democracy in one form or another is always --at least in our tradition -- presented as normative to the functions of a just government. How it is to be achieved, and how it is to be preserved against the erosive forces of administrative convenience and demagoguery, is still an open question, despite the yeoman work of our Enlightenment ancestors. Pissing on the Democratic Party is simply self-indulgence as far as I'm concerned, especially when you have nothing other than your will and passion to offer as an alternative.

L.W.M. likes to remind everyone that we've passed this way before. So do I, as a matter of fact, and it earns us both a somewhat deserved reputation for being smug, arrogant, patronizing, dismissive -- the last poseurs of in loco parentis, if you will. Even if we were as obnoxious as our impatient state-smashers insist, that would still leave them with the burden of accomplishing what we could not.

I'm not being facetious when I say that despite my misgivings, I wish them all the luck in the world, or observe that they're going to need it.

If you really want to despair then compare the Patriot Act and associated legislation with the Reichtagsbrandverordnung which set aside all constitutional rights 1 month after Hitler was democratically elected.

Go through and despair. I pray that the US will learn from European history and stop making our mistakes.

For details on the comparison I give you the following website.

http://janschejbal.wordpress.com/2006/07/17/vergleich-patriot-act-und-reichstagsbrandverordnung/

AP just posted: "The Senate was expected to pass the bill with a large majority, perhaps as soon as next week, before Congress takes a break during the week of the Fourth of July."

What a very bitter irony - "during the week" we celebrate our Independence. There's nothing I can add to this.

if he sits this one out.

Not all constituencies are equal. The demographic "well educated people who care about civil liberties" is overwhelmingly on his side, and represents a signficant percentage of the population. The time for him to do something is now. I wonder if he realizes that.

Nader?! "Change the political dynamic" with Nader?

Hasn't he done enough damage? Don't answer that, I'm not interested in how Mr. Wonderful's public works. The foreseeable damage to this country resulting from his narcissistic 2000 campaign far, far outweighs whatever public interest good he may have done.

Sorry, but I won't do you the courtesy of not answering your question as you ask me to. So although you say you are not interested: Nader has not done any damage to this country, and he won't do any damage. On the other hand, if Obama wins after this week's events, this will do irreparable damage. If the American people support the Democratic candidate after this, they thereby give their seal of approval to the bipartisan authoritarian consensus that has emerged, and real concern with liberty or the rule of law will completely disappear from the collective public consciousness for a very long time to come. There simply won't be anyone left to object to all this authoritarian nonsense. A McCain win would be the lesser of two evils, because having the Democratic party in the opposition would perhaps make it possible to keep alive concern for liberty and the rule of law. But why choose a pathetic loser like McCain if you can choose Nader instead? He is going to get at least five percent this year. If he gets close to ten, liberals can for the first time look forward to being courted in 2012 by the Democrats. It's sad to see reasonable people still stand with Democrats even as they have made themselves adversaries of the most fundamental freedoms.

I contributed to the fund. I have written my representatives. I have blogged. This is tantamount to treason in time of war. Our servicemen & women are supposedly promulgating Democracy in the Mideast while our Democracy is being ravaged from within by those we have elected to serve and protect it, at the behest of the Decider, in collusion with the Military/Industrial/Corporate/Banking/Media Complex. It is a disgrace and stain on our nation's history, especially when viewed in context of the abominable actions of the current criminal administration. Big Oil and Bushco must be disenfranchised. The nation must be mobilized to stop these power mad men and women. What does this mean? 90% tax on top 1% until the nation's treasure is retrieved? Abolishing "personhood" for corporations? Defunding Halliburton and Blackwater and all private military intel ops currently supported by tax dollars? Withdrawing all money from banks and Wall Street? Picketing EXxon and all gas stations whose profits fund terrorist regimes? Buying nothing from an INC? I'm starting with closing my Verizon and Sprint accounts in favor of Qwest and commencing to work to unelect anyone who signs this law, including Obama, whom I voted for in the primary. Impeach, imprison, investigate. I want to know exactly what pressure by telecoms/intel agencies caused Congress to cave. These people are war profiteers and traitors.

WHAT A REVOLTING DEVELOPMENT IS THIS FIASCO STATE OF INJUSTICE AND TYRANNY-AFFLICTED AFFAIRS

BY Steny Hoyer AND OTHER "DEFEAT-O-CRATS" WHO QUISLINGLY ENABLED Bush's VILE MACHINATIONS SANS DARES

FOR THIS CRIMINAL CHIMP-ERROR TO STOP IN HIS TRACKS

OR HE AND HIS CRONIES WOULD BE "STRETCHED" ON RACKS!!!!!

THIS TRAVESTY OF JUSTICE CAN BE PREVENTED OVER "YOUR" DEAD BODIES, REPUKEICAN AND DEFEAT-O-CRAT SCUMS, AND I HOPE THIS BOTH OF YOU LAWBREAKING TYPES SCARES!!!!!

WHEN BARACK OBAMA IS PRESIDENT, ALL THIS ILLEGAL CRAP SHALL HALT!!!!!

ANYONE WHO DISAGREES SHOULD BE BOUND AND GAGGED THEN BURIED ALIVE IN A VAULT!!!!!

SUFFOCATE SLOWLY, YOU ENEMIES OF FREEDOM AND FAIR PLAY!!!!!

YOU'LL BE DESICCATED MUMMIES WHEN COMES YER JUDGEMENT DAY!!!!!

WHEN YOU'RE DRIED LICHES*, THEN AND ONLY THEN WILL YOU ALL BE ABSOLVED OF ALL FAULT!!!!!

*-corpses