http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/archive/2008/06/19/how-bad-is-the-fisa-deal.aspx

And the other Watergate felons while we're at it. It's not fair to let one gang of criminals off the hook when Nixon's henchmenn did time in prison.

"Sorry, Rufus, but with all due respect, THIS is where Obama needs to stand up and be the leader we all want him to be and kill this bill dead in the Senate. It will be TOO LATE for him to do a damn thing about it if/when he takes office. What he's going to do, push through reverse legislation? Good luck with that. The GOP aren't pussies like the Dems. They'll kill any reversal, because they're not douche bags, like the douche bag Dems.

Obama wants to represent the change we want. We can't do this. He can.

Time to step up and lead.

-- senorplaid "

I hear he needs to work for the change he speaks of. He needs to stand strong on this, I agree. It's never to late. The dem's are stalling, right now. you right, they are spineless sell-outs. But the gop are brainless so it evens out.

How is the gop going to stop anything we put through? How? they have lost every election since 06. nov is going to wipe them out. They are going to be a slim minority. They cna only stand strong if they have the numbers. They did in the past, they do now (as the blue dog sell-outs might as well be rethugs). But nov that ends. Obama and the dem's will reverse the game. With obama at the helm the gop will be irrelevant for 30 years.

Calm down, everybody. Take a breather. This is the gop's issue. If you want to hold someone responsible hold them resonsible at the ballot box. Oh, and your elected representatives, like obama. but be careful with the demands. Obama has done an enormous amount of good for the progressive movement. We're about to take over. don't sell him out now, when we're about to win.Take the good with the bad. Hold him to account. But take it easy, take a breather and think about the big picture. Think of the grand sceme of things. hold obama to account but be respectful and not demanding. Obama has done much for our movement. We must take the good with the bad and do what we can. Easy on the demands. More "whys" the power is in the why's

I sent a copy of this article to Cindy Sheehan's campaign contact site.

contact@cindyforcongress.Org

I will post the reply if any.

I hate to say this, but the average American voter probably doesn't even know--or care--this is happening.

I've spoken with two coworkers today--one liberal-leaning, the other a world-traveling leftist--and neither one even knew this legislation was being put up for vote, neither knew anything about domestic spying and telecom immunity, and neither seemed to understand what I was so upset about.

One actually intimated that if you're not a terrorist, you don't need to worry about being spied upon anyway.

And you wonder why Hoyer, Pelosi, and the others ignore our outrage? They know the majority of their constituents doesn't give a sh*t, while the deep-pocketed lobbyists do.

"I strongly oppose retroactive immunity in the FISA bill.

Ever since 9/11, this Administration has put forward a false choice between the liberties we cherish and the security we demand.

The FISA court works. The separation of power works. We can trace, track down and take out terrorists while ensuring that our actions are subject to vigorous oversight, and do not undermine the very laws and freedom that we are fighting to defend.

No one should get a free pass to violate the basic civil liberties of the American people - not the President of the United States, and not the telecommunications companies that fell in line with his warrantless surveillance program. We have to make clear the lines that cannot be crossed.

That is why I am co-sponsoring Senator Dodd's amendment to remove the immunity provision. Secrecy must not trump accountability. We must show our citizens – and set an example to the world – that laws cannot be ignored when it is inconvenient.

A grassroots movement of Americans has pushed this issue to the forefront. You have come together across this country. You have called upon our leaders to adhere to the Constitution. You have sent a message to the halls of power that the American people will not permit the abuse of power – and demanded that we reclaim our core values by restoring the rule of law.

It's time for Washington to hear your voices, and to act. I share your commitment to this cause, and will stand with you in the fights to come. And when I am President, the American people will once again be able to trust that their government will stand for justice, and will defend the liberties that we hold so dear as vigorously as we defend our security."

WHERE ARE YOU, OBAMA?!

This is not a bill that makes something illegal explicitly legal. This is a bill that gives the AG the ability to bypass the courts jurisdiction in the matter if he/she chooses. I realize it's possibly naiveté of the highest order considering how corrupt our government is but all we need is an honest AG and the situation is moot.

OK now that does sound a little crazy to my own ears. :) Still it's true.

Maybe that's why Obama is silent on this? Maybe he knows he's going to appoint an AG that wouldn't use the FISA extension to hide crimes? AG Edwards would, I think, go after those telecoms and ex-government officials with unrestrained and very public aggression, regardless of any FISA extensions at all.

In fact, I could see politically it could be advantageous for Obama to play a sort of shell game with this stuff. If he is out in the press right now saying "we are going to prosecute these crimes, we are going to bring these criminals to justice" then the people who know they are guilty and depend on a shield like FISA to stay out of trouble are going to have incentive to destroy evidence, hand out bribes, etc.

However, once President, his AG can just start issuing subpoenas left right and center, gathering data, and perhaps, just perhaps, we can have some justice.