Has it occurred to you they're not conservatives? As for Vietnam, there was really no such country as South Vietnam, it was an artificial creation which only existed in someone's mind, put it on a map and declared its existence without the approval of the Vietnamese. Vietnam's existence was to be put up to a vote by the entire country of Vietnam but the election was scuttled by the American government and viola South Vietnam was declared without the consent of the Vietnamese. This is Insane McCain's current mindset. McCain is a war criminal for bombing Vietnamese civilians and a traitor for violating the UCMJ, Uniform Code of Military Justice who wouldn't even protect his own family from the insults and abuse of the Bush gang in 2000.

"Too many words" is not the reason Noam Chomsky doesn't get traction on television. It's the message itself, no matter how many words were used to express it, that is deemed crazy, fringe, radical, etc. and thus not worth hearing.

As he has pointed out, when you have a message that is something other than conventional wisdom being said over and over, then it's impossible to express the message in a persuasive way using very few words. Those who espouse conventional wisdom need not offer evidence or articulate their premises, because it's all just assumed. Only those who challenge that wisdom are required to do so, which makes that message one that, by definition, can't be accommodated on television.

Amen!

As an example, it is very difficult to say in a few words that our interventionist foreign policy is making us more vulnerable to terrorist attacks by creating new enemies all the time --- and it is bankrupting the country on top of that.

It is so easy to get shouted down by a few snide comments. Yet, the truth remains the truth.

The most powerless people in a war are POW's. They know almost nothing of how a war is going until freed. They learn of what is going on at home only through newer prisoners and their captors. This was McCain's experience as a POW from Spring 1967 until his release in 1973. He wasn't able to experience, as I was, the full futility of our efforts in the air war on North Vietnam or on the ground in the South. What was to have been for us a war by proxy against Communism, ended up as more than our leaders foresaw. Believe me, we tried out best. It was hopeless and went on for all too long.

Um... what is "Iran?"

It's interesting to contrast the US in Iraq with Britain in WWII. Iraq was unequivocally a war of choice for the US. In contrast, in WWII Germany tryly posed an existential threat to Britain: it was far from clear in real time that Britain would not fall to a German invasion. Yet my impression is the British government was nonetheless fairly straight with their populace at the time, in absolute terms and doubly so when compared to the US in Iraq today.

I can't seem to dig up documentation on the internet, but a specific example as I recall it: At the end of 1942 in the Battle of the Barents Sea, the Germans sank a minesweeper (HMS Bramble) but misidentified it as a destroyer. IIRC, the British authorities did not publicly correct the Germans' mistake. Thinking like the Bush adminstration, they could have scored a PR coup (and even an accurate one) by saying the German press accounts were wrong, but they didn't want to tip off the Germans that they'd made a mistake and risk giving them even the slightest intelligence edge. In other words, even -- perhaps especially -- in its darkest days, they were wholly focussed on winning the real war, not the PR war.

CAMBODIA : VIETNAM : : _______ : IRAQ

Stop McCain!

While I am not in support for the "swiftboating" of anyone for their military service, and I understand why Senator Obama and others honor Senator McCain for his service in Vietnam. BUT Let's not forget that the war in Vietnam was based on false information (Gulf of Tolkin) and that we were continuing the outrageous violence perpetrated against the Vietnamese by the French and others that had been taken place for centuries.

Americans committed war crimes in Vietnam. What took place there is nothing to be proud of.

Why we have to pretend that Senator McCain's service in Vietnam was an honorable thing is beyond me. I do believe his intentions as a young man were honorable (but manipulated). At least I hope so.

Hell yes, McSame will cause us much more distress.

This is what is missing from the arguments advanced by the Viet Nam and Iraq Occupation hawks:

What IS victory?

If they were to be honest they would have to admit to a purely imperialistic answer.

The only victory that they would accept, then and now, is complete American control of the invaded country. And since neither country either attacked or threatened America in any way what could possibly justify such capitulation?

War proponents are loathe to discuss the impetus for either conflict. They start most of their arguments by saying it doesn't matter how we got involved in these wars.

But that is fatuous to the point of absurdity. Of course it matters! You cannot begin a war on false pretences and still claim any moral authority. You can only make matters worse by refusing to admit error. Intensifying firepower and body count only compound our crimes.

Maybe a Madame Nancy P. remark...

"the war was a grotesque mistake"....

No Harpy!

How about Mr. Harry R.? Blown Hair?

So vain. I bet Capital Hill club is sad?

Moral guilt!

Maybe the neocon should be observed?

Watch closely to avoid A GOP Suicide Pacts?

Watch and observe stuttering bizarreness.

Bad behavior!

Count how many times they say, "frankly".... STHU.

If said every other word, haul 'um to a mental ward.

I believe 52,000 American soldiers died during the entire Vietnam conflict. And if I recall correctly, nearly half of those deaths came AFTER the Pentagon had already determined there was no "way to win."