[Arne]: You should note that Glenn has requested that such [discussing libertarianism] not be done.

I think he wanted the silly tit for tat and namecalling to stop. Adult discussion of any subject is usually not something he discourages.

It ends up being the same thing. The libertarian crowd (and he shall go nameless) has a bug up his butt concerning certain people (both of whom shall also go nameless), and any time the subject comes up, he has to put in a dig or two at others and it devolves into page after page of the latter. This happens because certain people are convinced that they have the right to respond ... or that they have the right to speak last. But politeness and economy dictate otherwise.

Cheers,

"@ Jkalos

"Regarding the oath to the Constitution, "cabdriver" makes the ultimate observation that the military is commanded by the political and that insubordination to the CIC is considered near treason. This is but another instance where the real trumps the ideal."

And the civilian -- that is the term in the law, not "political" -- is ALSO sworn to protect and defend the Constitution.

"The only effective protest is resignation, which you as a principled individual did... yes? I have a lot of respect for that.

"-- shooter242 Saturday, May 10, 2008 11:58 AM"

You wouldn't recognize principle if it handed you its ID signed by "God" Itself. That being the fact, who could be impressed for your "respect" for it?

Meet vets who worked hard on 'um-self! Try to look a bit more deeply. There are some vets of any war, not a VFW gathering, who assimilate some lessons from 'The Five Wonderful Precepts'....

Somewhere, I've a book with Tai, Thick Nhat Hanh....

He has written in print, that Vietnam vets have 'touched'

the nations collective 'war-flame' and experienced evil.

And they Survived it.

So, he says, "Speak."

Thick Nhat Hanh has a book cover that shows Tai touching the Veteran Black Granite Reflecting Veterans Memorial. If You go to look for a loved one's name, and see your own facial image reflected back toward you. Ponder.

Visit the Wall?

Tai has written,

`Vietnam Veterans are at the tip of a bees wax candle.

`I have said to Nhat Hanh, "Go out for a football pass?"

`Tai, instead of walking so slow, how about I tackle you?

`If you hand Tai some pints of blueberries and comb honey?

`He calls you sweet.

`Thich Nhat Hanh has writers workshops for peace veterans.

`Maxine Hong Kingston wrote 'The Fifth Book of Peace' ....

In the book, I commented about the phrase, 'It don't mean Nothing'

It ends up being the same thing. The libertarian crowd (and he shall go nameless) has a bug up his butt concerning certain people (both of whom shall also go nameless), and any time the subject comes up, he has to put in a dig or two at others and it devolves into page after page of the latter. This happens because certain people are convinced that they have the right to respond ... or that they have the right to speak last. But politeness and economy dictate otherwise.

I agree with you but even you know who has a right to respond. The problem is not so much his right to do so, it is the nature of the responses, which he actually thinks are defenses or counterarguments to some facts that are really no longer longer in dispute. He is in denial and we all know what that is like. Even Shooter sees to be coming out of the fog of his own denial. He mostly comes around because he likes us and tries to start fights for his own amusement. It works best when everyone is willing to confront reality. We can debate the nature of reality but we can' deny the consensus view of what that reality may be. The earth s round, not flat. The earth was not created 6000 yers ago, certain offensive documents were less than 15, not 30, years old, etc...

QS... Pat Robertson pamphlets littered with context-free quotes from obscure hadith purportedly proving that Allah is really Baal the Moon God...

I am Baal The Moon God.

I remember reading a great newspaper article by Roland Barthes (reprinted and translated in the collection, 'Mythologies') where he took apart the symbology of a news magazine's cover photo of an African soldier serving in the French army, and all the emotional resonance it was supposed to produce for all the purposes you describe. IIRC, he also managed to convey the points that the symbology and hero worship (as you describe it) are not there to serve the troops or honor them, but to advance the purposes of politicians (and Empire).

Fabulous. Also concise and accessible to a lay audience, not just fellow semioticians. I wish we had more of that ourselves, especially now. It's hard to imagine American consumers going for that sort of thing, but that's only because we don't have (enough) contemporary examples.

(To be fair, a much weaker example recently in The NeoCon Republic made the point that veterans' groups sometimes only serve the purpose of providing photo ops for politicians from both sides. The 'troops' are abstractions, like lapel pins, quickly made invisible with only that lingering sheen of patriotism to mark their passage ...)

So there's my proof!

Let Robertson in on the joke, will you? Then he can go back to advocating the assassination of other foreign leaders, the more psychotic MAs will follow suit, and truth and beauty shall reign once more ...

and others like him, Harry Reid said there will be a Senate investigation into this scandal.

Your post about Baal got me thinking again that this is what is missing in our country now.

It goes to the distrust of the press and media from all segments. Our side thinks there is a conservative bias. Their side thinks there is a liberal bias. Even if there were no bias, nobody would be happy because we all have our own personal bias. And the conversation has ended. That Miller quote was in this recent New Yorker article by Eric Alterman. Enjoy.

The News Business

Out of Print

The death and life of the American newspaper.

by Eric Alterman

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/03/31/080331fa_fact_alterman

N=1, you might like it, too.