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reject it out of hand. This is the "Libertarian"/anarchist/your thesis, bucky1 --
Man isn't perfect, therefore his gov'ts and laws aren't perfect, therefore his gov'ts and laws should be repealed and then man will be perfect.
For which, of course, you provide no supportive evidence.
Mikey
You have a point. The authors of some of those quotes are not cynical liars; some are self-deluded. Some really intelligent people are very close to instability, and sometimes cross the line.
Mike, your response and the brit's were just as expected.
Niether of you even had the decency to define government.
You haven't either -- see above -- so have a rather large amount of gall to demand others do it for you.
Neither explained the wonderful record of governments in the 20th century.
You mean the history of gov'ts violating laws? Certainly no one denies that as a fact of history.
What you leave out is how the non-gov't individual and group is no less prone to or guilty of violating the law against his fellows.
You have yet to provide a means to prevent that without establishing gov't, laws, and gov't enforcement of laws. Simply citing reality as being the problem doesn't do that, let alone persuade that reality should tehrefore be supplanted by a fantasy which didn't exist before there was gov't and laws, and won't exist in the absence of gov't and laws.
Again: man is imperfect, and everything man does is imperfect, including the making of gov't and laws. So, murder is prohibited, but because law is imperfect, murder still occurs. But murder doesn't occur as often as it would were imperfect gov't and law to be released or otherwise eliminated.
Come to think of it, both of you said I must be wrong because Mrs. Fardquard (5th grade teacher) said so.
Most 5th graders are mature enough, if it is explained to them, to understand from their own life-experiences the necessity of gov't and laws.
Hmmmm. Damn convincing you two are. I would like you to find Paramor on your next trip to central Florida and stand on a corner yelling how great the US government is and how much the locals should love it.
Typical simple-minded extremists: there is either absolute oppression, or absolute freedom, with nothing possible in between.
Even though between those two extremes is the imperfect reality we as imperfect humans at least in part generate.
The two of you carry on with your fact-free discussion as I really must get to work.
You have a fact? Then provide it: how, if there is not gov't, and no laws, will man suddenly become perfect?