With at least a few hundred thousand people now dead and several million more maimed and/or displaced as a result of the neocon's political machinations, it is astonishing that they would now use Holocaust prevention as a justification for initiating yet another bloodbath, this time with Iran. At the risk of being falsely branded anti-Semitic, I must stress that America should not allow itself to be used as an easily manipulated unprincipled thug handy for fighting the proxy wars of other nations.

try to read something from these guys - it isn't all hefty tomes, there are some short articles there too, but the point they all make is that the relative profitability of the oil business is higher when oil prices are high. This means that Bush's trips to Saudi to supposedly plead with the Sheikhs to open the oil spigots are just window dressing:

http://bnarchives.yorku.ca/

It the USA & others were serious about Oil dependency they would have gone for "fuel efficiency" and alternative energy etc for over 50 yrs now. They have thwarted this.

It might partly be about "Oil & war profiteers" though......

The west & world has tons of resources if it goes to alternative energy and stops waste. "Population explosion" is a problem too.

Who financed PNAC? How many PNAC are for pro-Israel aggression I wonder?

Japan imports everything & it is the greatest Economic success of all time.

______________________________________________________________

....& PNAC was alway about guarantteeing a stable availability of oil as a matter of NATIONAL SECURITY ... don't ever forget that.... or that ENERGY is a legitimate NATIONAL SECURITY issue ... our bad planning and sordid history should not be used as rationale for "empire building" ...

A few years ago, I asked several people if they thought a refusal of oil producing nations to sell us oil would justify a military response, most said yes.

"What's our oil doing under their sand" isn't just a bumpersticker.

-- susan sunflower

I want to get this in here even if it extends the thread unduly, because I feel that the religiously inspired guerrilla movements now known as "Islamist" would have done better to stay with the older ideologies of pan-nationalism and anti-neo-colonialism, and I want to ask, who is really responsible for the reframing of the issues as religious, anyway? Who decided that, in this case, pan-Arab movements should be regarded, not as regional resistances to neocolonialism, but as "wars of civilisations"? Was it "them," or "us"? And if it was "us," was that because "we" were being pushed rightwards anyway, towards a sort of crusader mentality of our own? I don't want to just list individual neocon writers, starting with Bernard Lewis, since examples by themselves don't really answer the question. Neocon ideology grew out of anti-communism, when Trotskyites met Scoop Jackson democrats, but who was really behind the change towards evangelical anti-Islamism? To claim that "Israel" or "the Jews" were behind this change in the US's geopolitical ideological theories is just plain ignorant.

It is the Govt of Israel's credibility that is zero....and not Iran.

The key is, it's not what they say it's what they do.........Is it not Israel that is killing "non-Jews" and stealing their land ........

.............

@prunes

MAD implies trust. You trust your foe to not act in a manner that would harm himself.

Suicide bombers do worry about harming themselves.

Maybe the leaders of Iran will not mimic the suicide bombers that they brainwash, but there are other ways trust comes into play.

Assuming Iran develops a nuke, can we trust them to control what they have?. . .can we trust them to prevent others from using it?

It's not a pretty picture.

I don't trust Iran.

-- NotOrbitBoy

@small town hick, wisely wrote:-

The Energy Panel..excerpts .......

Does anyone remember Cheney's Energy Panel, and it's top-secret deliberations, oh so long ago?........

what if a conversation like the following occurred?.........

"Gentlemen."

"Ten years from now, the Chinese and Indian economies will have developed into serious competitors for the world oil supply. .........

"Gentlemen, in the next ten years, we must control - control - the oil distribution of Iraq and Iran. One way or another, we must block construction of those pipelines, or we will be out of business, both as corporations and as a nation."

"Suggestions?"

Would this not explain a lot of neo-conservative decisions, positions, and strategies over the last few years?

-- The Small Town Hick

@damaged goods...& Quickstrategy wrote:-

You hit it. It doesn't matter who is in power.

----------------------------------------------

Who said, Lenin & Trotsky?.. If this is not a Bolshevik style racket, then what is it?.....they go for the support of the ignorant…. These racists, supremacists and absolute maniacs WITH HUGE CONFLICS OF INTEREST are raping the West whilst "trying to get the West to rape the East". They have a very cheap & system for permanently promoting & extending “THEIR” very profitable wars...(& seems largely global Zionist extremists/Israel Govt/others).......they can normally finance their activities from "our Govts” pockets but if not, they spend a few million for "fronts” & “think tanks" etc (it’s relative bird seed!).....

The real key is they "own the media" & probably also control the finance system (also, war profiteers)......it's insidious…most people tow the line to keep their job or make huge money. So, their weapons of choice are BRIBERY or Political donations to both sides (also bribery)…..and, of course MISSINFORMATION. They love crooked reports, which provide the ready “scapegoat” for public officials.

How do they have ANY credibility? It's seems it’s about "world domination" for themselves… they are barking mad or mad with greed or supremecisim…. they don’t care what anyone thinks about them!!! The lie and laugh about it...They have killed millions I suspect and will needlessly kill more! …..People are hoodwinked by media & they get away with it. They must be stopped as what they do to others, like the Bolsheviks, the will also do to us.

I believe it has nothing to do with resources or security?...this is the “selling pitch & excuse”….We already possess massive resources and can wipe out the planet 10 times over...we knew 50 yrs ago oil was finite!...

I fear this war of choice is yet another massive media promoted FRAUD to profit for “the few”. We all need an Arab/Israel settlement NOW not more needless killings… if Israel wants “perpetual war” I say stop giving them money & trade & scrap dual nationalities NOW.

The PS & the Politicians are bluffed because these thieves control the media …& media smears do remove people who don't "tow the crooked line"……it doesn’t matter who’s in power…they groom them, they remove them!…I’d love to see who Cheney’s contacts are? And, how he might have benefited from all this too? And, it’s not JUST him, look at the vote record in congress too….