As you are relatively new to the front pages of Salon.com, and perhaps MSM in general, you are no doubt unaware of Sen. McCains most recent extrapolations on these weighty matters. He expained it very clearly: he is anti anti-everything.

I will say this; McCain most certainly did Not write what he read in your expose'. Yes, I will give you that small credit. What will prove still more shocking to you, Im sure Mr. Greenwald, is that Sen. McCain is anti-that too.

Otherwise, well done.

bah.

asides~ so, bop, do you really think cocktailhag would date a semi-archaic, trashy, mostly immature guy!!! tell the truth.

ps. Mr. Greenwald. I, too, know a lot people who have ~25 years experience in front of the bench ... just not necessarily in an attorneys role, if you know what I mean.

It's a pretty clear choice now - McCain, facist war monger corporate tool, vs. Obama, progressive.

You must have meant: "McCain, facist war monger corporate tool, vs. Obama, communistic one world government corporate pawn.

Most people simply don't give a damn is the conclusion I have reached. They will literally have to be out in the street with nothing to eat before they will believe it can happen to them.

-- Aycharaych

It is called hyperinflation. It is very difficult to avoid at some point when the inflating done by the central government gets out of control. When it happens, this political system is finished.

Perhaps the next one will be better (it has happened), or perhaps worse which happened in Germany once upon a time. But, all empires end in economic failure and we are very close.

The consensus at lunch today (all very liberal Democrat Catholics) was that whoever takes the white house will be blamed for the coming economic collapse.

You must have meant: "McCain, facist war monger corporate tool, vs. Obama, communistic one world government corporate pawn.

Which one wants to expand the size of the federal government even more and increase spending? Which one wants to tap your phone and issue you a national ID card? Which one supports spending more on PORK (which IS socialism) than any Democrat ever has? Which one advocates concentrating all the power in a Unitary Executive with the entire power of the Immortal State at his fingertips?

In short, Which party are the real Stalinists at this point?

Everyone knows the answer, only 28% can't admit it yet.

So I'd ask, are we talking about not voting as an individual moral choice, or as a broad strategy?

Well, the back and forth today was about personal moral choice I believe but I could see it used as a broad strategy. However, just as with letter writing, phone calling, internets thread commenting, etc., refusing to vote, even done on a large scale, wouldn't amount to much without some concurrent (and very serious) direct action. By itself, it would say something about where we the people stand but I don't honestly think would It scare them. They aren't listening/representing now... why would they care if no one voted?

But why can't we hope or work for these things or for some other truly revolutionary positive change AND vote for Obama or an acceptable write-in candidate, if he/she is the least of all available evils in the voting booth? -- Baldie McEagle

IIRC, no one has been talking about write-in candidates. Least ways not in the discussion today. Write-ins are fine with me (at one time I was going to write in Kucinich, with an XL neon Sharpie if faced with a Diebold screen) but that is a considerably less system/establishment perpetuating choice than voting for Obama. You really shouldn't conflate the two as if they are somehow equal.

Obviously you can do whatever you like Baldie. But I think you are kidding yourself. A vote for Obama is a vote for perpetuating the system and the establishment. Period. There hasn't been any significant action taken yet. Why would there be any action taken if Obama is elected? Do whatever you like Baldie. It is a "free" country after all.

A Lady visited the health clinic in Yien Vien. She ask me : Why do the American people, and the mothers of soldiers, send their children to die 10,000 miles away from home in our Mother Land?" speechless.

A Lady told me ~ A bereaved mother carried her childless head to our clinic. What could we do but weep with her. "Why does your American government bomb and do this horror to our people?"

`I'm so sad and sorry.

'ca dao' are short oral poems, artifacts, and Vietnamese/Persian literature won't hurt.

I love this one :~; It's not of war...

~

Oh that girl with the Binh Tien hairdo.

Loaded with a thousand sardines,

my boat heads for our marriage.

If you don't believe me, open a box and look.

Mint leaves underneath and, on top, sardines.

~

Taoist thought permeates every person.. it seems in `Nam

Scratch the skin lightly... and you sensed a beautiful soul within...

Of course, the worker 'people' are to be distinguished from harsh government.

Lucky for us? ... stop these wretched neoconservatives, and walk circumspectly.

[Prunes, to Susan]: Maybe "most"... but I'm certain Myself can beat you in any argument where you defend the Republicans and I defend conservative principles. Or even American principles.

Indeed. In fact, I believe that the original true conservatives are profoundly dismayed at the thugs that have appropriated their label without paying for it, and have besmirched it and soiled it so. Conservatives like you, and John Dean, for instance. Now that the thugs have soiled the bed they appropriated and slept in for so long, the true conservatives are left to try and find a better appellation that hasn't been ruined. Sorry about that, Prunes. Really, I am.

Cheers,

Sorry about that, Prunes. Really, I am.

Well, who knows how much of this alienation is due to "change" in the conservative bloc, and how much due to my realization of how little the bloc cares for it's ostensible goals...

but I meant to reply to you upthread, even though there's a good argument to be made for neocons anti-representing conservatism, the "no true Scotsman" defense a.k.a. "conservatism cannot fail" is indeed on the rise.

IMO, conservatism as an ism has failed. Economic analysis (which should root conservative thought) is not subject to the whims of the times, but the self-identifying "conservative" segment of the American populace... they've failed BIG TIME. They've failed to embody anything of their traditional values in themselves.

8 years of getting called a pinko for advocating market principles is enough to convince me of that.