Letters to the Editor
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Yep
Catholics who want to vote their consciences may as well vote for the candidate who represents in aggregate the greatest respect for human life. -- HealThisNation
Yes.
There are no contortions of doctrine that will change this simple fact. The Catholic Church has been quite clear in the past about the breadth and depth of its doctrinal commitment to the sanctity of life. It does not stop at abortion, at contraception, at the death penalty or at 'pre-emptive warfare'.The Lopez's and Ingraham's of the ultra-right are political operatives who use their religious affiliation as a mundane tool for mundane gain. The reason why they're bullshitting so hard and fast right now is that they know that Catholics are 'in play' this time around.
They should be called on it.
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Catholics generally hold abortion to be an 'intrinsic evil'
I'm in a doctoral program at an extremely conservative Catholic school (the Catholic University of America), and have had this debate with many Catholics; the general consensus seems to be that wars may cause civilian deaths, but war is not an intrinsic evil, whereas abortion is (if you hold that fetuses/embyros are human beings).
Doing some sort of utilitarian or quantitative analysis wouldn't make sense, then ... i.e., saying that "the war in Iraq has killed 600,000 innocent people, and only 500,000 abortions have occurred in the same length of time, so Catholics should support an anti-war candidate over an anti-abortion candidate." The idea is that you can't support someone who supports an intrinsic evil (or would appoint judges that would probably support an intrinsic evil).
I'm not Catholic, and I don't necessarily agree with the argument; but I can see what they're saying.
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@Iokannan
Listen, I don't make these rules, and I don't agree with them, but they are what they are. Catholic doctrine is what the Pope says it is. Period. He's the Vicar of Christ on Earth. The church is an absolute monarchy (one of many reasons I left).
Under those rules, there's no moral difference between an abortion and shooting a 6-month-old in the head. None. If anything, the abortion is even less justifiable.
If you take the 1MM deaths number in Iraq, and say none were justified under self-defense, etc., then you're looking at the Iraq war responsible for killing 200k/year. Abortion in the US runs about 1MM/year.
Again, according to Catholic doctrine, abortion is murder, period.
So, if you're going to be a true Catholic, you have the choice between one party that has driven a war that kills 200k/year, or another party that, in its platform, endorses policies that allow for the killing of 1MM/year.
1MM > 200k, hence the Republicans are the lesser of two evils.
Again, I don't agree with the underlying premise (abortion=murder), but the logic is clear.
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if you say war, they will send them to die by the score
Well said. As the Digable Planets back in maybe the early 90s noted of the right-wing "pro-lifers" (sic):
they don't really give a damn about life
they just don't want a woman to
control her body or have the right to choose
but baby that ain't nothin
they just want a male finger on the button
because if you say war they will send them to die by the score.
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I apologize, cestmoi123
Again, I don't agree with the underlying premise (abortion=murder), but the logic is clear.
My apologies to you as well, cestmoi123. We're in agreement here as well as on the Church itself. I misread the tone of your original comment.
Sorry about that.
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@Iokannan
No worries, glad we understand each other, and glad I could clarify.
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Catholicism and Democrats
I attended a university and was taught mainly by nuns. They were the kindest, most intelligent, well-traveled, open-minded women I have ever met. I am not Catholic, but it was an honor to know them and to be taught by them.
I am quite sure that many of them would never have voted for a Republican. The values that the Republicans stand for would truly go against their natures. I agree wtih Doug Kmiec, who seems to be urging Catholics to weigh both parties. On one side you have a party concerned about human life of all stages, colors, financial and human conditions, and on the other side you have a party who has waged an unholy war, profited financially from that war, hurt the middle and working class but focused America's wealth in the hands of 1 percent of its citizens, and worries only about a fetus but could care less what happens to the fetus after its born or what happens to the mother even if the pregnancy is a danger to her health and life.
Looking carefully at both sides it's an easy call to make about which party cares more about human life. So the fact that nuns were down at the polling place trying to vote for a Democrat doesn't surprise me in the least.
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Hilarious and sad
I literally heard her say "But Jesus never said to just stand there and take it".
---Also, to anonymust: Philly Catholics, officially, seem pretty damn conservative to me. Less so as individuals, of course.
---Also, has anyone seen scooter? I'm worried that he hasn't shown up to tell us we're atheist hypocrites who should mind our own business.
Maybe we should call him. Does anyone have a cell number?
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Douglas Kmiec
I haven't read all of the comments yet, so don't know if you've corrected this, but Douglas Kmiec is at Pepperdine Law School, NOT Notre Dame.
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@Cestmoi
So, if you're going to be a true Catholic, you have the choice between one party that has driven a war that kills 200k/year, or another party that, in its platform, endorses policies that allow for the killing of 1MM/year.
1MM > 200k, hence the Republicans are the lesser of two evils.
Be interesting to see many Catholic votes will be lost to the Republican'ts, once the low-information voters are made aware of McCain's endorsement by Pastor John "The-Catholic-Church-is-a-Whore" Hagee.
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Yet another story ignored by the MSM
The fact that the Iraq War has never met the religious criteria of a "just war" is yet another story ignored by the MSM. Many faith traditions within Christianity, Judiaism, Islam, Buddhism, and others were clear about their positions and teachings in 2003. The MSM offered a virtual blackout of coverage except by the loony right wing fringe of evangelicals and other "religious" persons deviating from their denominations teachings.