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Sunday, April 27, 2008 12:00 AM

John McCain and Bush's torture powers

The alleged anti-torture maverick has done more to enable and legalize torture than any other political figure in the U.S.

The letters thread is now closed.

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Sunday, April 27, 2008 08:00 PM

@RMP

It's a funny thing, but losing my close-up vision actually helped my bike riding skills! Yup, as they immediately noticed when I finally (after about twenty years of really not knowing what I was doing) took a motorcycle training course, my biggest fault was looking down at the ground to close to the bike.(among many others, I also leaned the wrong way! It's a wonder I never crashed.) I was looking at road which was much to near for me to do anything about whatever I happened to see. And it was worse when I was driving tired, like after work. I had to learn to look up and further out. Well, not being able to focus on anything close solved that problem.

I have also cut way back on riding at night, or even driving at night.

And we never, of course, ever ride on Saturdays. Litvaks, yes, Shabbos-breakers, no.

Sunday, April 27, 2008 08:09 PM

T'anks for Nothing.

Let's just say, William, that if you grew up to become a tank driver, nobody would stand in your way.

Sunday, April 27, 2008 08:14 PM

Unseriously

Except certain Chinese gentlemen with briefcases, God bless 'em. I do hope that when our time comes -- if it does -- we'll have some gentlemen here who'll do as well.

Sunday, April 27, 2008 08:23 PM

trjones1

-Hopefully you'll take a second to actually try to comprehend my posting before taking what I say on one subject and assuming I'm talking about something completely different.-

I did and 'comprehended' and responded to it in two parts.

Part one: I responded, if you'll review my words, "I am not going to comment on the first item, it's no more than a rumor to me at this juncture".

Part two: I stated that McCain's position on torture is demonstrably and verifiably disingenuous.

I repeat, on the latter point there is no 'swift-boat' involved, only repetition of the facts as they are available to anyone who cares to look it up.

The former smells like bullshit and and likely is.

Made-up bullshit swift-boat tactic is of no interest to myself or most others here.

Sunday, April 27, 2008 08:24 PM

Speaking of Swift and Boats

A humourous perspective on the time-dishonored tactic.

http://

www.truthdig.com/report/item/20080427_get_your_own_smear_tactics/

Sunday, April 27, 2008 08:27 PM

YMMV

...capital gains are a voluntary tax. If an asset isn't sold, it doesn't get taxed.

One of the truly successful traders I know counseled that I should never make buy/sell/hold decisions based on tax consequences. I've found it to be excellent advice. My personal feeling is, if you have to consider the tax consequences, you may not belong in the market. Of course, YMMV.

Sunday, April 27, 2008 08:31 PM

@HornetDriver

Did you watch the first in a series of the documentary series Carrier that started today on PBS. It gives an almost no holds bar view of life on a carrier. For those who have never served in the military, it will give them a more accurate perspective about life in the Navy and the military. I recommend everyone watch it. I'm not sure how many one-hour segments comprise the series, but it shows a full 6-month deployment of the USS Nimitz. Link at my sig.

Sunday, April 27, 2008 08:55 PM

Still Over-the-Top

I don't think that this article *does* lay out the case that John McC *is* the most responsible guy in the country, it just points out the myriad ways in which he has been complicit through inaction, or knowingly weak action, in the establishment of the torture regime. But is this any less true of say, Susan Collins? It's true that many in the mainstream media view McCain as having special "Moral Authority"--and not without some reason, I suppose, since he is in fact the only member of Congress who has undergone torture--but this status bears no legal or procedural weight.

Your real argument, I think, is that precisely because of this special "Moral Authority," John McCain has more responsibility than the average Senator to work against the legalization of torture in this country, and I absolutely agree with this. Indeed, McCain's complicitness and hedging on this issue has been the most disappointing (to me) aspect of his contemptible embracing of the far right of his party. What John McCain really is is the guy who *could have done the most to stop the legalization of torture* (within the Senate, at least--I think "in the US" is still a stretch).

Failure to act, and even complicitness, however, are *not* the same as proactively pursuing the legalization and implementation of torture by agents of the U.S. government, as many members of the executive branch have done. For this reason your claim that John McCain ranks first in the entire U.S. political establishment in legalizing torture is indeed over-the-top (although, unless you were actually breathing so hard while writing that the carbon dioxide levels in your blood became depleted, it was not hyperventilating). And that over-the-top exagerration does make it easier, I think, for reasonable people to dismiss the good points you have to make. Since I'd really like the Democrats to win, I don't want people to ignore your valid points about McCain's unfitness to be president.

A simple thought-experiment may suffice to disprove your argument: Take a time machine back to late 2001/early 2002 when the torture business all began, and abduct the one individual (being virtuous sorts, we will deposit them in Tahiti where they may frolic harmlessly in the tropics in perpetuity) who you believe will, in the following 7 years, be most responsible for the enabling and legalization of torture. Do you abduct John McCain? I think not.

Sunday, April 27, 2008 08:57 PM

A Plug for the old Hull

The USS Nimitz (68) is proudly homeported at Puget Sound Naval Shipyard a couple blocks from where I type! When a worm makes a hole or barnacles shroud the keel the Nimitz comes here for expert repairs and refit. In a drydock suitably sized for the massive vessel. Just thought I'd mention it.

Sunday, April 27, 2008 09:05 PM

@Northwest

It's funny that you would "respond" to my post by attacking me for a position that I never even commented on. If that's what you mean by comprehension, then so be it.

All I said is that McCain shouldn't be swift boated (using dishonest innuendo and lies) over his service record. Did I say he was right on torture? No. I think he's wrong and he out of anyone should know better. Did I say he shouldn't be attacked on substantive issues like torture? No. Fire away.

As far as the "wet start" thing (and no, a few comments on a web-board isn't going to "google bomb" McCain), you can dispel any doubt lingering in your mind with about 5 minutes of research on Youtube, like I did. You'll see a grainy little dot jumping off the nose of his plane, which was pointed in toward the flight deck. Isn't the modern world wonderful that this is at our fingertips?

Personally, I'm an Obama supporter who still believes in what that man is trying to do in elevating politics above the gutter. As such, it pains me when I read some isolated posts lamenting the fact that "we" couldn't swift boat McCain on the Forrestal issue (I'm not talking about you, Northwest, don't get your panties in a bunch).

Now that I've established my liberal bona fides will you stop trying to stuff straw men in my mouth and get some rest, as I'm about to do.

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