So when are you shipping out to Iraq?

You have enlisted, haven't you?

You believe this BS, don't you?

I am not going to comment on the first item, it's no more than a rumor to me at this juncture.

On the subject of McCain's stated position on torture versus his actions, they are diametrically opposed and clearly out him as a hypocrite and a warmonger. That is not 'swift-boat', that is exposing hypocrisy backed up by documented fact.

You might want to go back and read Mr.Greenwald's post in it's entirety.

If you think that is debatable, then you would be wrong, 'my friend'.

You need to heed your own advise, "I wonder if you knew that or not, but either way, check your sources."

Didn't there used to be another HornetDriver??

"Hey, rupert, I have some nice beachfront property in Arizona to sell you. Be sure to take your meds before coming to the closing, though. -- HornetDriver"

Same guy?? He seems to have the same hyuk-hyuk tone down pat. And the "beachfront property / Arizona" metaphor is just as funny now as when I first heard it 50 years ago.

Twice

1) Hillary meets the Glob

Boston Globe April 27-2008

Hillary Strangelove

http://tiny.cc/NpufI

2) The Reverend Jeremiah Wright presented a stirring speech to the NAACP in Detroit today, live on CNN, not edits.

Yeah, I'm the same Hornet Driver. I just couldn't remember the darn password I'd given first time I logged in (as two words "Hornet Driver"), so I re-signed up and used HornetDriver (one word).

Oh, and rupert_c, check out what a Hornet Driver does for a living before you ask stupid questions.

Can you imagine Bin Laden not saying something about Sunnis and Shias killing each other? That would have been an affront to him just as much as our military bases in Saudi Arabia.

Hardly.

http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/%5Cpapers10%5Cpaper941.html

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_10-1-2005_pg3_1

"Madison's "fear of standing armies" (he didn't fear standing armies) led to the British capturing the nation's capital and burning the White House."-- L.W.M.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRwiH18QwpU&feature=related

My post was only about the wet start posting that was going on a few pages ago, "my (overheated) friend." Believe me, I think McCain's actions on torture are despicable, but I also believe that the best way to respond to that is through legitimate means, not stupid conspiracy theories and lies (only talking about the wet start thing here, so don't go crazy).

Hopefully you'll take a second to actually try to comprehend my posting before taking what I say on one subject and assuming I'm talking about something completely different.

I caught the story you intended for quickstrategy a few threads back. Thank you for putting it up there. It helps.

Oh, and rupert_c, check out what a Hornet Driver does for a living before you ask stupid questions.

Whatever the hell a "hornet" does, it sure hasn't helped us with any of those things you complained about.

Are you trying to tell us you are employed in the Iraq debacle?

Well, thanks a lot for all you've done. It's been a brilliant campaign.

Thanks for helping out with the "Wet Start"-John McCain Google bomb. Every little bit helps.

Much as I dislike John McCain, for what I believe to be compelling reasons, I'm glad you came to his defense here. I've read reports about the Forrestal incident from varied sources, and seen the deck camera footage of the incident many times. Whether the wet-start story is true or not I don't know, but I would bet against it based on what I do know about it.

Most of the detailed technical information I've read was in quasi-official military publications and was aimed at rectifying the fire-suppression and damage control deficiencies aboard large carriers which the Forrestal and Oriskany fires, and prolonged operations in the South China Sea during the Viet Nam War first exposed.

Forty years ago, I'd also talked with a sailor from the Oriskany whom I met in the course of my anti-war activities. He talked about his experiences during the Oriskany's own fire, and complained bitterly that all the measures supposedly developed to counter the vulnerabilities exploited by Kamikazes during the later battles of WWII had proven to be less effective than first thought. He was very eloquent about badly maintained equipment, poor training, and the effect of sustained operations on the mental and physical condition of his crewmates.

What all of this suggests to me is the obvious fact that carriers are dangerous, and that high-explosive weapons are difficult to design so that they're safe for long-term storage, stable during rough handling, and resistant both to temperature extremes and electrical faults of one kind or another.

When I reflect on that information, and compare it to the classic form of modern character assassinations followed by the McCain wet-start story, I have to agree with you that at very least, the burden of proof is on the folks who are circulating this story, and not on McCain himself.

" I just couldn't remember the darn password I'd given first time I logged in (as two words "Hornet Driver"), so I re-signed up and used HornetDriver (one word)."

Scary. Kind of like imagining Ronnie Reagan, or John McCain for that matter, scratching his head, trying to recall the code for the nuclear football . . .

Your citing trjones1 of more accurate facts gives one explanation as to why the M$M has not picked up and used that apparently false story about McSame’s role in the carrier tragedy. If the right wing knew about such a story about a Dem candidate, I doubt if the truth would make much difference. When Hillary or Barack talk about McSame's war experience all they say is, he is a war hero. I wished the Repugs would exercise such restraint when they develop their campaign tactics. When the Repugs start dispelling a false story, the M$M use it even when they know it is wrong, because they say their job is to report what the candidates say, not properly inform the American people. They have forgotten that their main job as a member of the fourth estate, is to help all of us separate truth from falsehoods, not just act like a court recorder.

When any ends justifies any means, truth and integrity are the victims. That is where I differ so much with commenters like you HornetDriver, who criticize "liberals" like me because although we might want the same end, my means to reach it are going to consider all sides and consequences, not just that I simply have to win. HornetDriver, when your mission is either kill or be killed, I can see how you need a black and white world. When we talk about how to deal with other nations, our perspective has to be that it is a gray world and our goal is for a win-win outcome, not win-lose. Surely you have studied enough history to see how much death and destruction has resulted from those leaders who believe that to win there has to be a loser.