Letters to the Editor
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Time to remind the Salon readership about "Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies"
Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies tells us:
"As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
I wonder what the number of wartime abuses were, among Allied troops, as they marched through Europe in 1941, to defeat those same (ahem) Nazis. Shooting prisoners, extreme interrogations, collateral damage to civilians, etc. Regrettable, but not unexpected in wartime. (By the way, John Yoo never recommended nor would have tolerated any torture of any soldiers from any nation.)
How thoroughly odd it is, when we are essentially at war with groups who maintain the explicit goal of the extermination of Jews and who utilize the most massive means of terrorism known in our age, that the Salon readership woud find such fault with the governmnent of the United States as it fights those terrorists.
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@Che, oooex
Comforting, isn't it?
You know I won't read much past that. At some point you will be indistinguishable from any authoritarian, regardless of your political affinity.
Omooex,
None of your points ever manage to climb over my little toe.
It's you who has been perennially clueless. But I must say I am suspicious of your motives for promoting Goldhagen's book here. You could be that clueless or that clever by half. The book was probably something that AIPAC enjoyed immensley. On the other hand, I can see how your distinctly tendentious nature might find the specious arguments and accusatory tone appealing. Then again, you probably are just that clueless.
A Nation on Trial: The Goldhagen Thesis and Historical Truth
http://www.amazon.com/Nation-Trial-Goldhagen-Thesis-Historical/dp/0805058729
"In this important volume Finkelstein and Birn demonstrate that Daniel Goldhagen's study of the Judeocide is monocausal, teleological, and severely blinkered. Finkelstein carefully sets forth Goldhagen's distortion and disregard of the secondary literature; Birn masterfully lays bare his gravely flawed use and interpretation of archival sources. Both authors also raise hard questions about the political reasons for the inordinate promotion and reception of Goldhagen's book. No serious student of history can afford to ignore these well-reasoned and withering reflections on the perils of pseudo-scholarship."
--Arno Mayer, author of Why Did the Heavens Not Darken?: The Final Solution in History
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Frankly
"That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."
Consent of the governed. People must want to believe these fantasies, because there is so much available information to the contrary. Ignorance, in this country with the availability of information resources that every person (except perhaps the most destitute or extremely rural), is a choice.
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Jkalos, you gave me an idea
Why not an International Torture Olympic "Games" for all the two bit despotic regimes in the world, like China and now the good old USA. Instead of five linked rings on a white background as a symbol they could use five linked handcuffs on a blood red background. Bush would excel and probably win the gold medal in waterboarding "sports." Without a doubt, Cheney win the most medals. Yoo could be an official referee.
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ElDubyaEm: You know what they say about Libertarians
Libertarians = adolescent males (of any age/gender) who demand the liberty to impose their authority on... you.
Rimshot.
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Way over your head...
What I don't understand is why you're always so eager to advertise the fact.
Read the comment carefully. I neither supported nor condemned the book, but observed it was wildly popular. It has had a great impact on how people view the participation of average Germans in the Holocaust. Using that frame, I speculated how Americans would be judged by the historians of whatever power is in control when our hegemony has waned. My salient point is that, no matter what the reality, we will appear completely complicit in it all. Its ok. I...write...slower...next...time.
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Time to inform The Pink Elephant...
That Godwin's Law was an experiment in memetics, nothing more. It could have involved Scientologists and L. Ron Hubbard or Stalin and Stalinism, the Pope and Catholicism. It is all irrelevant to the experiment and that he has just become a part of an experiment he has no comprehension of.
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Now I'm proud that I wet the bed
E-man: (By the way, John Yoo never recommended nor would have tolerated any torture of any soldiers from any nation.)
E-man, you are a turd floating in the punchbowl of life.
John Yoo has specifically stated that the president can have anyone, anywhere, anytime tortured as long as he feels that it is necessary.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11488.htm
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"People must want to believe these fantasies, ...
because there is so much available information to the contrary. Ignorance, in this country with the availability of information resources that every person (except perhaps the most destitute or extremely rural), is a choice." -- omooex
I disagree to some extent.
It is enough if the majority are afraid to speak up, and the cowardice of going along with so as not to seem like a pussy pacifist, or a near traitor can be very strong. The group think is always something to fear, no matter the topic.
The government gets the propaganda noise machine cranked up, talk radio falls in line, newspapers sell more copies by printing scary scenarios, and the talking heads on Sunday tell us that this is a serious matter that can not be ignored. We do not want to be a Chamberlain after all. Then a few at work start to talk up "doing what is right" and many just keep their mouths closed.
I submit that it is not that the people are not paying attention or are stupid; it is the madness of the crowd coupled with the cowardice of the man with a family to feed.
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Jkalos
... I always make a point to say that what I am criticizing the Chinese for is that they are acting like we did; that one day their descendants will be as ashamed of them as intelligent Americans are ashamed of what their country did to the indigenous peoples.
Always the same battles in each generation. Always the need to stand up to the tyrants. -- Jkalos
Yes, all nations have much to be ashamed of. Many have things to be ashamed of that they will never admit or even see --- the failure to feed the hungry as they spend trillions on weapons for example.
I hope you see that the tyrants we must stand up to in every generation are most often our own leaders trying to lead us into evil.