Letters to the Editor
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-- Aycharaych
Trying to get Americans to take note of what they are doing to their fellow citizens is well nigh impossible..
Trying to get them to take note of what they have done to nameless, faceless brown people on the other side of the world is asking the totally impossible.
What you are asking for is self reflection on a national scale. Short of being on the losing end of something like WWII, which is what it took to make the Germans reflect on their sins, it isn't going to happen.
Note that the Japanese by and large escaped the self reflection that the Germans underwent.
You may be correct, but I hope not. The American empire must end for the world to have a chance for peace and prosperity; and that means we must realise that we are not exceptional in any way. We must see that the rules for the other guys apply to us also.
Now how can that happen? Defeat in a war that cripples us would do it, but that might mean the end of civilization. So, I think we need to try to look to our moral standards and ask if we really want to teach our kids that might makes right.
Are we a moral people or not? Do we want to be? Can you kill the guy next door because he might someday be a threat?
We need to ask these questions on a national scale. The media should start, but they will not.
Who?
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@Bill Owen
I think that they want to take one last roll of the dice. Dubya or nothing!
All this tsuris, and now you incisively explicate my nightmare!
Yes Bill, and what wouldn't they give to avoid an accounting which a change of administrations, and parties, will bring? That, more than anything may be at the bottom of their Gotterdamarungophilia. If that's the word I want.
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bucky1
no, the media will not. in most workplaces, barbershops, churches and bars this conversation is ongoing. peace is the objective all folks want, really. only clowns like w. and the rest of the neocon posse push this fear factor that would make anyone think of offing their neighbor because they may pose a threat to 'national security'.
it starts with us, eh...
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Bill Owen and war in Iran
Here is what I think it going on. A big fight. And I don't mean in Iraq.
Hersh was absolutely correct on the evidence. At one point America had half, half, its navy in the Persian Gulf! Then there was the steady drumbeat of rather clumsy propaganda about EFP's, some of it denied by General Pace even at the time.
Then we heard from Adm. Fallon who said, "not on my watch". I have observed that senior serving officers rarely take the time to deny things that aren't on the table. (Fallon now denies saying this now) I think Fallon took the wind from their sails. For a time.
Since then it's been a pretty steady rain, of Iran this, Iran that. Then came the NIE that said there was no program. It was a huge message to Bush from saner elements in the intelligence community and the Pentagon. Unfortunately, Bush and Chtheny simply routed around the damage, saying that they did not believe it and started bloviating about "capacity". The Israelis of course chimed in with what they said was their own assessment -- that in fact there was a program.
Bill, only a fool would underestimate this administration's capacity for evil. If they see that Obama is going to win in a landslide as I have thought for some time and they launched a real shooting was with Iran that spread --- could they just call off the elections? It has happened in other places and I seem to recall some flap about national emergency plans last summer.
What if some Iranian bastard caused a '9-11 type event' just months or weeks before the election and Bush declared a national state of emergency. Would Americans have the balls to fight him?
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Bill Owen
I agree there is evidence for internal struggle, and also shots across admin bow from congress. For example, last week, Cheney was in Saudi Arabia and all over the Middle East.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gvsKHCj_jjvCkYgE9lKl3x9xkEvAD8VK3C100
"Iran also figured prominently in Cheney's discussions with foreign leaders in Iraq, Oman, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Israel and Turkey"
What was Cheney talking about?
March 21--Last Friday-- "If Bush Goes Into Iran, He Should Be Impeached," said Conyers."
Why did Conyers, who has previously toed the line about impeachment being "off the table"--suddenly make this statement during Cheney's overseas trip?
March 31--Fallon's Retirement takes effect.
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@patg
lwm...bucky...derbig
it lost it's entertainment value around page 30. go to bed. and fuck you lwm (proof that elephants aren't the only one's who don't forget)
cheers
Unless you are full of shit, and just showed up to extend the joke, would you care to e-mail me at mooser42001@yahoo.com?
I can provide notarised proofs of my existence.
So basically, if bucky doesn't like what someone is saying, he simply says they don't exist. Good strategy. And you patg, do you care to tell me what posts under my name were written by LWM, or are you just a case of enhanced suggestibility?
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@ Dirigo
It's not that any of Crooke's ruminations come as revelations to us here, but it is nice to see the folks in charge of bangity-thumpity stuff finally getting 'round to it, even if they do have to retire first.
And my, don't those Oxbridgeans make a lovely pear-shaped sound, no matter what it is they're saying!? I wonder how long we'll have to wait before we hear something like this -- albeit more crudely -- from Henry the K himself. Sadly, I reckon he'll be dead, or I will, long before we do.
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Whatever DCLaw
Why don't you tell that to everyone's pal, long long long time UT poster LWM? You know how things work around here:
1) Someone posts something (or links somewhere) that LWM doesn't agree with, or criticizes "the left", but not from the left.
2) LWM calls the person you quoted to or linked to names, some form of bigot is its favorite. Sometimes on LWM, sometimes not.
3) The thread devolves into a pissing contest flame war, with LWM flaming the fire using clever sockpuppets like "Ron Pauliac". Remind me to make some form of "Hillary Clinton is a Monster" handle, or something offensive to LWM, since it is acceptable for long long long long time posters to do those things to everyone else. You know, since we are all about The Golden Rule here, amirite?
And on and on and on. Or maybe you can tell me the last time Glenn wrote about how Murray Rothbard and Mises are bigots? When was the last UT thread trashing Justin Raimondo at www.Antiwar.com, since that happens whenever anyone mentions www.antiwar.com? Or does the conversation just naturally flow to discussions about how prominant Libertarians and Paeoconservatives are bigots/racists/jerks/etc. whenever the L word is brought up around here?
That is how the comment section in UT works. Nobody did it but long time regular and everybody's friend, LWM. Get over yourselves. He is like an obnoxious puppy. Cute for a while when in private, pooping on stuff and whatever, but when your friends come over gets out of control and is embarassing. And then the owners wonder why, asking themselves, "he is so cute when nobody is around, the guests must have fired him up."
I used to have another handle, Linear Chaos, but I started posting on my real name because it is less tempting to go completely off the handle when you aren't completely anonymous.