Well, you certainly opened my eyes. As a 40 something black woman, I have heard such comments as Wright's, and frankly, often from crazy old uncles and the like, and NEVER in church. But the comments of Instapunk were really new to my post integrationist ears. When I think angry white folks who hate black people and think of some of us as N***ers, I rarely think of educated and articulate people. By his scale I guess I get a pass because I'm a Harvard educated writer. But I don't know, I wear dread locks, and rather like hip hop, and my car is kind of old. We can't all be Tiger Woods, you know. Sarcasm aside, this subjective racism really scares me, as you never know when you will be utterly dehumanized. And once that happens, things get pretty dangerous regardless of race. Whether is is OJ (who for the record I think is guilty as sin) or my Godson, or Instapunk himself, humanity is not subjective.

PS If this represents a significant portion of the right wing, no wonder the Clintons are such dirty fighters.

to wash off the slime after reading this crap. Other than that, I have 2 responses:

1. It's amazing that people (Reynolds, instapunk, et al) can say such horrible, ignorant, hateful things, and then wonder why "black people" get angry. If you put Wright in context with Instapunk, it's a little hard not to see Wright's point, even though I find his language divisive.

2. What are all these people afraid of?

Seriously, let's enter their reality for a moment and assume Obama shares Wright's views (even though that would be contrary to Obama's own words and deeds for the past 2 decades). Do people think that an Angry Black President would ghettoize all the white males? Avenge The Blacks on The Whites in some horrible genocidal war? Force White Womwn to breed with Black Men?

This is the unspoken part of instapunk's (and others) rantings: some ridiculous, ugly, race-paranoid apocalypse. But they should be encouraged to articulate their fears in specific. Instapunk isn't upset because young black men dress funny (all young people dress funny, to those who have stopped following fashion trends): he's somehow threatened by those funny-dressed guys, even if the threat is all in his head. Once the paranoid fantasies are out in the open, they can be rebutted, and the fear-peddlars can be seen in all their ridiculous glory.

Thanks for responding. I certainly have no clue how any military people but the mostly enlisted and contract-workers I live with feel. Certainly not anybody of any rank.

Thanks again, I appreciate any information I can get on this subject.

Trinity is a church that baptizes. Obama's two children were baptized. I find it odd that Obama joined the church because Wright brought him to Christ. Prior to this, Obama claims not to have been a Christian. That may mean he was never baptised. Surely he was baptized at Trinity if he has become a true Christian. I can't claim to be certain of the church's belief here. At the very least Trinity would require a profession of faith.

I have been baptized three times:

1. At 8 in a Baptist church I was saved by a Charlie McCarty dummy handing out candy. I think it is safe to say that my subsequent Baptism was not really heartfelt. I had only wanted the candy. (We later left the Baptist Church so that my father could continue to smoke and I could continue to be a little ballerina.

2. The second time I was baptised at 12 into the First Christian Church. This was semi-heartfelt. My mother wanted to wash the Baptist off.

3. The third time I was baptised was at the age of 19 when I was a newlywed. My new husband wanted to be a Mormon. This was also semi-heartfelt. I became a non-Mormon two days later when I realized I was supposed to give up birth control and go forth and multiply.

Now I realize that semi-heartfelt implies a bit of hypocrisy, but since I was, sequentially under the influence of candy, mother, and sex, I think I may be excused a bit.

However, please note that I did not stay for 20 years in any of these churches. I grew up; I got divorced (in that order) and I moved on. Some 20 years later, after a antidote of healthy agnosticism, I became a Unitarian-Universalist which only requires a commitment to fairly secular principles and does require me to be an idiot or be dunked in water.

(Please note that I am not saying there are no idiots in the UU Church.)

What I am saying is that to join any faith once one is a mature person and not entirely sex crazed requires -- if one is not to be a total phony -- belief and commitment.

On the other hand one can accept as a political candidate in number of endorsements from religious leaders. Obama has renounced an endorsement from Farrakhan, a good move in my estimation and a much better comparison to McCain's acceptance of the endorsement of religious nuts.

There is simply no real parallel between McCain's endorsements and Obama's faith. Obama has decided to remain a member of Trinity. Trinity's present pastor has defended the beliefs of Wright.

In search of an easier opponent, I assume.

As long as I'm here, I'd be proud to run interference for you DCLawl. Hell, I'd be proud to take your shots!

But I'm going, so they're back to dashing themselves against your edifices. They haven't got a chance. I'm not worried.

Do you think the military can go on fighting the war if they cannot (even if it's in their own minds) depend on the White House for cover, and to implement their own, and the White House's worst instincts? Won't it fuck them all up? Would you waterboard for Obama

Doesn't this presuppose that the Military has been totally behind the war and the methods by which it has been persecuted? From my prespective as a (GD) civilian, it appears there has been a lot of protest from a group that's supposed to keep quiet and take orders from civilians. I thought waterboarding is forbidden in the unified code of military justice. And a lot of these "questionable activities" have been done by contractors and/or the CIA. I don't deny that I've gotten the impression that some think they are doing god's work, but I question if they are the majority.