Letters to the Editor
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Prunes
I have long been a student of the Gulag Archipelego. I discoverd it thirty years ago and read and brooded on it. I still use parts of it in some of my classes (particulary the section called "The Ascent"). I commend unto you all his other works, the fiction: Cancer Ward, The First Circle, August 1914, and his short stories, such as "One day in the life of Ivan Denosivich". And don't miss his address at Harvard, where he chides Americans for judging their presidents by how well they manage the economy!!!
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Jkalos
The sociologist and analytical thinker, good old Jacques E., Thanks.
Your the first person since the seventies I've heard mention Jacque E.
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I'm on board for isolationism.
Let's bring back all the troops from everywhere. Let the rest of the world fight it out amongst themselves.
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the US military was often a force for positive change
Since the military's sole utility is to kill people I take it your assuming that there are people who's ellimination you view as a positive change.
Without arguing that premise, I'm nevertheless forced to ask you what do you beleive is the best procedure for determining who deserves to die?
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Jkalos
Are these eternal patterns of human behaviour?
Yes.
Another installment of simple.. yadda, yadda, yadda.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJQepoRabnM
With all the clarity of dream
The sky so blue, the grass so green
The rank and file and the navy blue
The deep and strong, the straight and true
The blue line they got the given sign
The belts and boots march forward in time
The wood and leather the club and shield
Swept like a wave across the battlefield
Now with all the clarity of dream
The blood so red, the grass so green
The gleam of spur on chestnut flank
The cavalry did burst upon the ranks
Oh the iron will and iron hand
In englands green and pleasant land
No music for the shameful scene
That night they said it had even shocked the queen
Well alas weve seen it all before
Knights in armour, days of yore
The same old fears and the same old crimes
We havent changed since ancient times
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No, Bill Owen --- No!
I remember a time, not so long ago, when everyone in America was for the war.
What did they think? That Saddam would be scared off that damn hill? That no children would die?
I know this is too broad a brush. That there were many in America who were "against" the war. But you take my point.
-- Bill Owen
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We were not all for the war.
Even if we could kill all of them and never lose even one American soldier, we were not for the war!
Even if we could have paid off the national debt with the stolen loot, we were not for the war!
Even if world opinion were to call us great heroes, we were not for the war!
Even if it cured hunger in Africa, we were not for the war!
The reason is simple, we did not want to lose out soul.
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The one thing Glenn left out (everyone seems to do this) is that there was no moral justification for war. The morals of an action are more important than simply asking if we gain more than we lose.
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@shooter242
Let's bring back all the troops from everywhere. Let the rest of the world fight it out amongst themselves.
Since the alternative is dropping bombs on highly-populated civilian areas and calling it "helping", I'm with you.
Not just bringing troops back, but cutting off all funding for whatever future terrorists we might be creating. Hussein and bin Laden used to be on our payroll.
"Realpolitik" is 9/10 times a justification for something clearly immoral.
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@Kryptic I am not trying to belittle the Opposition
My point was that the opposition, such as it was, not as it was reported in the corporate media, was insufficient. And in retrospect it was.
A lot of the "facts" were reported, not just given much prominence. I guess the question now becomes, how do we get the message out?
And the larger question, in the face of the leaderships almost complete lack of respect for the will of the people, (impeachment is off the table - Pelosi) how do the people take that power back?
Is America a representative democracy or not? If it is not, then the will of the people is irrelevant.
Chtheny seems to think so...
"When asked to comment on a recent poll showing that most Americans say the Iraq war is not worth it, Cheney responded with "so?"
"You don't care what the American people think?" the TV host asked.
"No," Cheney answered. "I think you cannot be blown off course by the fluctuations in the public opinion polls."
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We didn't declare war on Germany until after they declared war on us
Do you believe that the US would have been wrong to declare war against Germany when it invaded Poland? Norway? The low countries? France? Russia?
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/wwii/dec/decmenu.htm
Japan attacked Pearl on 12/7/41 and declared war on the US the next day. Germany declared war on the US on 12/11/41.
We responded in kind.
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Ya, Bebop, the great Ellul
I teach a class that mostly consists of reading his book "The Technological Society." It is a class that makes the students groan and complain at the work, and I tell them: You want something simple, go study physics or chemistry. There are no algorithms here. This is real thinking about the human condition!
God, I love Jacques Ellul. There's another guy that good like him too: Ivan Illyich. I once met a student of his, a filmmaker who made a film called Koyaanisquatsi, that I sometimes use in that same class. There are good thinkers who can help us become self aware if we work at it.
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Tenax res antiquae
Glenn:
Wars that aren't directly in response to an actual or imminent attack shouldn't be commenced because doing so leads to the deaths of hundreds of thousands or millions of human beings for no justifiable reason.
Cicero, De Re Publica, 3.55:
...extra ulciscendi aut propulsandorum hostium causa bellum geri iustum nullum potest
"Beyond avenging an enemy attack, or pre-empting one, no jut war is able to be waged."
Glenn, you are in the best of company.