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Wednesday, March 12, 2008 12:00 AM

Misadventures in logical reasoning -- and lessons learned from the Spitzer scandal

Nothing obliterates rational discourse like a titillating sex scandal.

The letters thread is now closed.

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Thursday, March 13, 2008 08:18 AM

This thread

(peeks over the keyboard cautiously)

Is the hurricane over?

Has HRH flown the Enola Gay (or a more recent bomber) over the evil interventionists and conservatives on Glenn's blog?

Has Tropical Storm Tina desisted from days of shrill vitriol?

Have bucky and LWM signed up with UFC for a per per view bout?

Has Bush ordered the USAF to bomb the bejeezus out of every salvia plant in the hemisphere yet?

Like bop/celery might say, I'se just funnin'.

;-)

Thursday, March 13, 2008 08:18 AM

William Timberman went overboard again....

Over our heads again with another eloquent comment.

Also: The open microphone picks up W.T.'s soft mutterings:

~

What a bunch of tad-pole-herds rushing up the muddy river.

W.T. has his eyes half-open and thinks Glenn is frowning here.

Glenn sighs with his mouth wide open while eating rice soup.

Salon readers may think: Gads. 'What a herd of douche bags'...

Thursday, March 13, 2008 08:27 AM

Tone in DC.

Lately ~ The Tone in DC is so loud of a temper tantrum,

the yellow school bus driver is considering shutting down DC.

It's a serious outbreak epidemic of a itch-bad venereal disease.

Thanks Tone in DC. That's why "normal" people stay high-tale-it away.

Thursday, March 13, 2008 08:31 AM

@ziabear

They didn't arrest "Kristen," no. But they also didn't arrest Spitzer. I don't think they will charge him.

Thursday, March 13, 2008 08:31 AM

Addendum

A woman I know in Florida, now in her mid 40's, told me she used to be a teen prostitute before she married one of her johns and that it gave her a great sexual thrill going to a hotel and knocking on a door, not knowing who was behind it, but knowing that she was going to have sex with him.

If it helps, she was a landowner, a Republican, and vehemently in favor of the invasion of Iraq before it happened. We fell out over Iraq!

Thursday, March 13, 2008 08:32 AM

Well!

I think I've just been insulted.

I can't be sure, though. I consider myself a fairly intelligent guy, but I can't make heads or tails of that, Mr. Celery.

You could just simply say, "You're not funny, dude."

It sounded good when I typed it!

Thursday, March 13, 2008 08:40 AM

Mom!!!!! Criminal Sanction!

HRH is on a bucky rant again!

I am actually in favor of this:

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/national_world&id=6008994

What is a 60 year old man doing french kissing a 10 year old girl?

Weird. He should be classified as a sexual offender because of her age.

Thursday, March 13, 2008 08:43 AM

Spitzer's only "logical" recourse

Spitzer should have waltzed to his press conference arm-in-arm with one of his favorite prostitutes to announce something like this: "Today, I have had a change of heart. I propose to legalize prostitution north of Albany. The tax revenue generated by legalizing prostitution will help close the state budget shortfall of $2.2 billion dollars, and it will bring prosperity to economically stagnant communities, some of which resemble ghost towns, in our state. Thank you."

Thursday, March 13, 2008 08:49 AM

Tone in DC.... you misread me... It was about the inner beltway, generally, stinky foul mentality.

If I ever visit DC I'll hand you a roll of toilet paper.

Share one square with everyone who bombs chickens, cows, water buffaloes, black crows, and fellow humans in 'faraway' neighborhoods. It's best to talk. Don't kill anyone. Don't engage in dessert real estate theft. I'm not trying to be a smart-aleck lurker.... DC is dangerous to themselves and the entire world.

I hope there will be a likable job.

I desire Introverts or Extroverts,

to believe there is a future for the next generation. How about the DC inner beltway begin working toward a world we all can share? Don't we all ask, "Stop fowling the homestead nest?"

Only a deranged, backward, GOP,

and by any other name, is that ill!

Maybe we people can blow a nose?

Maybe use one toilet paper square?

Are we gravely ill yet? Medic! O Doc!

Thursday, March 13, 2008 09:01 AM

re japan--to retired military patriot

Well, this is a very late response to retired military patriot on japan--I've spent nine months in japan as part of a comparative anthropology project on gender. But I would refer you to the work of Anne Allison, a highly respected anthropologist who has done years of fieldwork in Japan--including a stint as a hostess in tokyo--she has also written a lot on popular culture in japan--and she has a lot to say from firsthand experience about the toxic sexist behavior of many japanese men. Two of her books are "Nightwork: Sexuality, pleasure and corporate masculinity in a Tokyo hostess club" and "Permitted and prohibited desires: Mothers, comics and censorship in Japan." Her work deals with how women are restricted from exercising anything like their full potential in the workplace; how women are socially pressured to be perfect mothers, how prevalent and acted out in the public domain male sexual fantasies are there (i.e., schoolgirls, looking up women's skirts, violence against women, etc), how absolutely demeaning to women much of their behavior is. I really recommend her--you might learn something.

And no, I'm not "telling you what to do"--I am simply raising the point that saying something like public baths and public nudity mean that japanese men have healthy attitudes towards women or that women there control the money in the household--they don't have much to do with their husbands and most of them like it that way so things are great for them--is incredibly simplistic, not to mention that it's a little difficult to believe that you based these observations on detailed research--how many japanese housewives did you interview, exactly? I guess it was easy for you to assume that I don't know anything about Japanese culture because I was "telling you what to do." Don't you think a better approach is to look at the issues I brought up in a bit more depth?

It's just as simplistic to say that because women are getting paid a lot of money to have sex with a stranger, they find it great or acceptable or harmless. I think that's what men would like to believe. But how anyone can ignore research on prostitution (see Kristoff's NYT piece today) or a huge upsurge of violence against women (see research on the use of rape in wartime) or even the incredible prevalence of eating disorders/impulses to have plastic surgery among women in the US and not be able to see that something is wrong, profoundly wrong with many social systems today. I think the difficulty here is that it's a legal issue as well as a social one. For me, the moral aspect is less compelling, in terms of what TRULY consenting adults choose to do. And to have to decide something on legal points only means that the parameters are narrower. So it's difficult to draw a conclusion. But to read so many comments that seem to completely lack awareness of the downside of something like prostitution and to ignore them is hard. If things were really equal, wouldn't there be as many straight male prostitutes as female ones and as many women paying for sex with men? That's just not the reality. And as someone one pointed out to me, if you replaced the women in hard core porn films with straight black men, many people would be outraged at what would be perceived as degradation. Or just watch a hip hop video where they don't even show the women's faces, just their butts and boobs and tell me women are not culturally demeaned as a matter of course. While I can't abide HRC, it is indisputable that the way many in the media have treated her is astoundingly sexist. Domestic violence? Rape and sexual abuse in the military? I could go on and on.

Sometimes, saying "you have no right to tell me what to do" (especially when that wasn't what I was doing) sounds infantile, as if the posters are telling off their mothers or something--just an impression. But we are adults, we live IN SOCIETY--we need to be informed about things and try and come to a consensus about how we balance freedom with social responsibility. Ignoring what life is really like for others makes it impossible to come to informed consensus.

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