@ Arne re: "Glenn, you're sounding positively libertarian today!!!"

As did LMW -- making superb arguments -- in the previous Spitzer post comments.

Mind you, I wasn't complaining. ;-) Despite my yanking the chains of Libertoonarians every once in a while, I do have the same libertarian tendencies myself. It's that I steadfastly refuse to believe in either absolutes or rigid "one size fits all" dogma, and it's generally in those environs (and in the "economic libertarian" nonsense) where I and the more strident Capital-L crew part ways.

FWIW, I assume you meant LWM.

Cheers,

We call the attitude "paternalism" but IMHO it might just as easily be characterized as "maternalism": that excessive smotherly motherly concern for the consequences of one's foolish or even tragic life choices, the kind of concern that makes one feel even smaller and shittier than the choices themselves did.

If we were to subtract that inappropriately parental concern from the discussion about prostitutes (their life histories and why they do what they do), I think we'd eventually work our way back to this: Kidnapping is illegal. Slavery/forced servitude is illegal. Theft of wages is illegal. Battery and physical abuse are illegal. Rape is illegal. Pedophilia is illegal. Etc... Beyond these individual crimes and others I may have forgotten to include, why should anyone care if one adult chooses to have sex with another adult for money?

http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/78885/

L.W.M. plenty of salvia info on the web. Careful.

-- bamage

Yeah, and I don't trust the web. Do you know anything about it?

I can google and I will, but I am interested in first hand accounts and anecdotal info.

I'd rather have some weed.

Tina Schrier has done something I don't think I could accomplish: Maintained a cool head and intelligently argued her position for a 200-page-plus comments section. Bravo.

-- Xrandadu Hutman

Whose constant whining and moralizing moralizing and whining led Spitzer down the road to hypocrisy:

http://tinyurl.com/2ya7y2

But he at least tried to be fair about prosecutions. No point in making the woman's crime a misdemeanor if there is no charge for the john.

"Politics ain't beanbag: 'tis a man's game, and women, children and prohibitionists had best stay out of it."

Finley peter Dunne

That was a long time ago. I'm all in favor of letting women do politics now, or prostitution. Same thing, really.

;-)

http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/78885/

L.W.M. plenty of salvia info on the web. Careful.

"It was distasteful to walk around cities like Amsterdam and Zurich and suddenly run into a sex shop in the middle of town.

-- James Karkoski "

Every city and town already has many sex shops. What do you think all those massage parlors are? Most small towns have a strip club somewhere close, where there is also prostitution going on. Those places do actually deal in human trafficking, disease, money laundering, and so on. they have no say in choosing clients, and the overall situation probably encourages worse behavior among all parties.

I'd feel much better about seeing a clean, regulated, sex shop; with tax paying, registered workers who have a clean bill of health, and get full benefits and protection under the law, who could then better choose clients and so on.

Then law enforcement could really crack down human trafficking and other serious criminal problems, in part paid for by a sex worker tax.

btw, for anyone who think a legalization advocate must also be a customer, personally I've never been to a "professional." It doesn't really appeal to me, I'm married, and when I was single never had trouble. But, rationally, the health and moral benefits to legalization seem totally clear.

Tempus, are you going to try the Salvia? You can apparently make tea with it.

I'm curious about it.

It's a sad end to someone who was, at one point, considered the next Teddy Roosevelt, but one could argue the supreme arrogance needed to both bust up prostitution rings, and then go on to enable them and exploit them in the belief you'll not get caught means we've dodged a bullet by taking Spitzer out of the Presidential candidate pool. Arrogance, a disrespect for his own family, a willingness to flout the law for short term pleasure, and a cavalier attitude towards funding crime rings: I'm glad we found out now.

-- sslash

He wasn't really funding a crime ring. It's not even a matter of degree.

This is a crime ring:

http://tinyurl.com/39zjsa

The outfit he patronized was like a mom and pop store. It would have been legal and above board if not for a bad law.

Late to the party . . .

Why isn't Spitzer's "private life" allowed to be taken into account here? He broke the law with his private behavior, the same type of law he used to prosecute others. He violated the public trust with his private behavior, the same public trust he gained in part by decrying such private behavior.

Simply because he had sex behind closed doors with a consenting adult doesn't mean the context of the act doesn't have an impact on the public. Beyond the fact that prostitution is illegal, (yes I'm using that argument)) when I read that he sneaked by his security detail to meet the woman for sex, I thought wtf. The Governor of New York is awol for 2 hours and however many additional hours $80,000 will buy?

The man was not an average citizen and I think his behavior, possibly illegaly transferring funds and ducking his security detail to commit an illegal act albeit in private, is fair game.

It was distasteful to walk around cities like Amsterdam and Zurich and suddenly run into a sex shop in the middle of town.

Which shows you think sex is "dirty".

What I find "distasteful" in the extreme is entire bars full of people watching other people being killed in extremely large explosions on giant TV screens and cheering it on.

Like, you know, "Shock 'n Awe"..

What you find "distasteful" says a lot about you, dunnit?