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Wednesday, March 12, 2008 12:00 AM

Misadventures in logical reasoning -- and lessons learned from the Spitzer scandal

Nothing obliterates rational discourse like a titillating sex scandal.

The letters thread is now closed.

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Wednesday, March 12, 2008 07:16 PM

Mizmoon

I'm rolling my eyes at Glenn and the other Salon posters who are so certain that prostitution is all about empowerment and consent.

Please tell us whose rights are violated when two people engage in consensual sexual activity, paid or not.

Keep in mind that sexual activity that is not consensual is rape.

Wednesday, March 12, 2008 07:20 PM

Aycharaych

Do you recall a recent story about a 15-year-old girl who was locked in prison in Brazil with men who told her that in order to get food she had to have sex with them? Is that consentual? I mean, she had to choose to have sex with them. They didn't throw her down and attack her. They gave her a choice - technically.

When you have a poor woman who has been abused and offer her the money she needs to survive - if and only if she consents to sex - I say that it isn't really consent.

Wednesday, March 12, 2008 07:21 PM

If promiscuity often does not end well..

Then it should be outlawed period..

Now to the task of determining just how many partners in what length of time constitutes "promiscuity".

Two partners per year?

Five per day?

Three over the course of a lifetime?

More than one over the course of a lifetime?

Or is it like pr0n, "I know it when I see it"?

Perhaps we should just outlaw anything which has a statistical probability of "not ending well", eh?

Wednesday, March 12, 2008 07:22 PM

@ALL WHO ADVOCATE CRIMINALIZING SEX WORK TO 'PROTECT' WOMEN - STOP THE COWARDLY SILENCE

I repeat what I asked on p. 35, and which I and others have many times inquired to know from you:

Tina S. -- and others here carrying on about how prostitution degrades women who purportedly have no actual choice in the matter -- ANSWER THAT, or STFU. What about the vast male sex-worker trade, hmmm? Strangely, from the moralistic and more-feminist-than-thou pro-criminalization crowd, one still hears crickets chirping on this aspect of the sex-work business.

Again: What about the vast male sex-worker trade, hmmm?

Wednesday, March 12, 2008 07:24 PM

Mizmoon

Do you recall a recent story about a 15-year-old girl who was locked in prison in Brazil with men who told her that in order to get food she had to have sex with them? Is that consentual?

I haven't heard of it..

No that is not consensual, it is coerced.

Slavery or rape if you will.. And I will.

We are not discussing the legalizing of rape and slavery.

Wednesday, March 12, 2008 07:24 PM

Better than Teevee

Thanks, sincere and heartfelt, to DCLaw1, L.W.M., PDA, and everyone else who has contributed the jokes.

Outlawing incurable diseases creates the thriving black market which is dominated by organized crime, and they bring a videocamera to record the acquisition of said diseases to sell the tapes...not mention the potential threat when active duty soldiers start posting 'em on You-Tube.

I'm going to giggle myself to sleep tonight.

Wednesday, March 12, 2008 07:26 PM

Mona

I have already addressed the male sex worker issue.

Men are vile beasts who deserve whatever nasty things happen to them..

Every single one of us..

The Shadow knows what evil lurks within the hearts of men..

Wednesday, March 12, 2008 07:29 PM

Mizmoon

So, she was abused and has been very poor - gee, how unusual.

I'm rolling my eyes at Glenn and the other Salon posters who are so certain that prostitution is all about empowerment and consent.

So adults who come from a poor background and have been abused can't consent or make choices for their own lives?

Let's round up all the poor people and victims of abuse and make them wards of the state, and appoint people like Mizmoon -- who knows what's best for them -- as their guardians to make their decisions for them.

I can't believe how patronizing people are. "She's poor and was abused so she obviously isn't capable of consent or making her own choices. Only people from middle class backgrounds are capable of real autonomy."

Wednesday, March 12, 2008 07:29 PM

Mona, relax

If you're really interested go read my letters from yesterday in which I specifically mention male sex workers and explotation.

This isn't life or death, this is just a bunch of people on soapboxes. It's meant for entertainment and sharing ideas, not for getting very upset. It's not worth all that angst. Take it easy or you'll give yourself heart disease.

Wednesday, March 12, 2008 07:31 PM

to Glenn Greenwald

Since you're still commenting, I'd like to know your take on an earlier post of mine. Of course you are answering letters selectively, partly because your argument is weak. But here goes:

If you think that prostitution should be legal, then do you think that women should be compelled to go into sex work when placed there by state unemployment agencies, as per the case of the Netherlands that I gave earlier? Women are compelled to take other jobs when their unemployment runs out. Why shouldn't they be placed in brothels if sex work is fully normalized? Shouldn't brothel owners submit their openings to the Social Services, and use the government offices to interview recruits? Shouldn't those recruits the brothel owners select be required to show up at work and perform, just as they are for say, cleaning or filing jobs?

Do you think they should? And if not, why?

I will be anxious to hear your reply.

And Aych, if sex work is totally okay, same as roofing, why is it an "unforgiveable insult" to suggest that you pimp your grandchildren? You insist for 500 posts that manual labor is the same thing as prostitution, why take an aggrieved and shocked tone when someone suggests the very modest proposal that your granddaughters take up this as a "career choice"?

You are too sick to work, the young ladies could support you and save your house. Tell the lasses to get to work.

There are hypocrites on this thread, just not the usual conservative kind.

Wednesday, March 12, 2008 07:36 PM

tina schrier

Since you're still commenting, I'd like to know your take on an earlier post of mine. Of course you are answering letters selectively, partly because your argument is weak.

I'm answering comments selectively due to time constraints, due to my assessment of which comments it's constructive and worthwhile to reply to, and which ones are being addressed by other people.

Mona has asked you a question about male prostitution five times over the long course of the thread. You keep ignoring it. You're in no position to complain about "selective answering" in light of that.

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