Yes, I agree it is a false dichotomy, but I wanted to see what you would say. I tend to grant more power to nature myself, always keeping in mind that we view evolution through our own particular cultural prism. When someone does something "bad" I tend to think that genetics loaded the gun but environment pulled the trigger.

However, where is this picture do you see "free will?"

The experience has left me adamantly ambiguous about the nature/nurture question.

For some people in some environments it's nature and for other people and other environments it's nurture.

Darwin said it, I believe it and that settles it.. (my latest bumper sticker to irritate the Thumpers)

Sarcasm has its place, outside of arguments and discussions it can be quite nice to sample. But in electronic missives and internet cage matches, it can be a bit of a problem. I do like Glenn's writing and incredible research, but his weakest skill is in the sarcasm department--its generally clumsy, offensive, unfunny, and mischaracterizing.

And yes, I am also surprised at the endurance this plucky little thread continues to show, now at midnight EST!!!!

The reason prostitution is illegal is because there are thousands of innocent woman kidnapped, brought across country lines across the world, and exploited.

And that would still be illegal, all sorts of laws are broken in the process. Kidnapping and rape would still be crimes.

I suspect you would like "friend computer" over at John Cole's Balloon-Juice blog..

http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=7730

Look for "friend computer"

It's a false dichotomy. We are genetically programmed to respond to our environments including acquiring our local culture, learning and weighing alternative courses of action.

But If I'd have to choose, I'd say that I give more weight to "nature" than most. I'm a big fan of Pinker, Dennett and Wright.

The reason prostitution is illegal is because there are thousands of innocent woman kidnapped, brought across country lines across the world, and exploited.

The examples you give are just moral failings.

Men engage in prostatution when they aren't getting enough at home or to engage in fantasies that they either can't or won't do at home.

Its the same reason men (and women) engage in affairs, because they are either not satisfied or taken for granted.

My error in identifying the specific misogynistic ‘comedian’ is not the issue, blasphemer!!! Nor should my error be attributed to Tina, who knows all and is right, and, of course would correctly identify Dan Akroyd and not Chevy Chase as the woman hating heretic in question! Mistake not this trivial victory over I, her humble and unworthy servant who, oh so recently, spoke words that marked me as a frequenter of prostitutes and as one who longs for the coming of the Caliphate, as in any way impacting Tina’s fundamental rightness, which is eternal and transcends all things.

I must confess I am at best a sporadic reader of your blog. But in my limited exposure I've never seen you hang on a board so long responding to readers with such passion. This appears to be an issue that has really touched a nerve. You've touched one of mine too -- I hate sarcasm. From the Greek meaning to "tear flesh".

What is it about this issue that has you tearing flesh?

You said: Either humans are responsible for their own behavior or they aren't.

What do you think has more power over the behavior humans "choose," nature or nurture?

If offered welfare payments equal to prostitution earnings, prostitutes would take the money and quit selling sex. You think?

Two points..

One: That is not going to happen in the capitalist utopia we inhabit.. Period.

Two: Do you not see the immense potential for abuse of such a system?

I don't know how to break this to a lot of people - but the "weaker/fairer" sex (or a subservient bottom) really is the one in control.

That's why a lot of men go to high priced Escort Services. They need a certain itch scratched and their wife would call a priest and a cop if she was asked to do it.

I work in Newport Beach, CA. Trust me, there are sharks of both sexes operating there that are looking for any way they can to get money from the people that have a ton of it. They sell investment opportunities, fractional ownership in planes, sex, you name it. I'm good at spotting them, they're ususally the best dressed, the best groomed and drive the nicest cars.

They may not have the money that they people they are targeting do, but by no means should you assume that they are all victims of the old rich guy sitting at the bar minding his own business.

I don't feel sorry for the chump old guy, when 3 twenty something beautiful girls are all fawning over him and he thinks it's his charm. But I'm not worried about the delicate little girls in this case either and how they might be seen as objects and not be valued for their true potential.

-- AnnieW

A critical look at our entire cultural milieu, (not very pretty is it?) would be in order. Moralistis and paternal or maternal handwringing over the syptom of prostituion is a distraction and diversion from the underlying maladies.

Tina *asked* me to do it..

She's been trying to needle me since the last thread.

I'm not angry, amused actually.

She also accused every single man that didn't think prostitution should be illegal of just wanting cheaper and more convenient services as a "john"..

That would include you, if you're male..

Tina has been thoroughly unpleasant to anyone who disagrees with her..

Prostitutes can be offered help to get out of that self-abusing lifestyle, but they cannot be compelled to take it any more than depressives can be compelled to take their meds.

If offered welfare payments equal to prostitution earnings, prostitutes would take the money and quit selling sex. You think?

And thanks Tina, for at least giving a nod to the "straw man"

Why would I answer a question that has been dealt with 200 posts ago and is an obvious straw man? Of course male sex workers can be demeaned and abused, and usually are by the time they resort to sex work. In fact, their cases may be more compelling because they are men, have to be tough, suck it up, are less likely to seek help. Ever read James Baldwin?

I may oversimplify here, but I think it just comes down to the GG's pet peeve of "keeping your nose out of other people's business" and your belief that there is another, better way. You may both be right.

But in Tina's (and her defenders) statements I still see the desire to "protect" the fairer sex. Where does this belief come from?

A group of friends recently saw the movie Rambling Rose and we had a discussion about the scene between Rose and Brother (for those that don't know, Rose is the adult and Brother is a 13 YO boy and he masturbates Rose to orgasm, but clearly Brother is the driving force behind the encounter). So, most of my friends thought that Rose did nothing wrong (ok, so I may have some perverted friends). But then I brought up: what if Rose was a shy, awkward man and Brother was a 13 YO girl? (and believe me there are many 13 YO girls just like brother) Almost everyone was quick to denounce this as "sick" and "well, the man should have known better". Truly amazing.