Please forgive me if I inadvertantly splattered you with my excessively broad brush. While developing my caricature of Liberals vs Conservatives I was using my grandmother and my wife as models.

I'm sure you realize that I am aware that reality is significantly more complex than what can be described by dividing everything into two buckets but I will note that neurons themselves are binary devices so I hope you will forgive the impulse.

Peace.

What are your sources for that statement. Just because one type of sexual commerce is legal doesn't mean that it stamps out other types of abuses. For example, Amsterdam still has trafficked sex workers. Why is that?

No, you don't get it with all due respect. I have repeatedly argued that prostitution is not "victimless" regardless of the size of the paycheck. You are doing so.

Aside from the extensive research, I also pointed to the key witness against Spitzer as a prime example. Let's look at Kristen's history: Homeless runaway, abuse survivor, drug abuser. Oh and a very high-priced call girl. What then makes her situation so uniquely privileged? Please list all of her wonderful advantages in being a prostitute because they escape me right now.

Or do you think a young woman who has survived abuse in her childhood along with other behavioral and emotional struggles should simply be happy to sell her body to keep a roof over her head?

JMO: I want and expect far more for the Kristens of this world. She may be too young to know the many different ways to make a positive, healthy life for herself, but I hope she gets that help now. I certianly will not condone or give a pass to the men who exploited this young woman or women like her.

Commenter bmaz over at emptywheel makes a good point.

http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2008/03/12/spitzer-resigns/#comment-58007

See, thats the problem. It is maybe sometimes a fine line, but it is still a distinct line. Even if it is true that the genesis was a SAR/CTR, once they see that there is no reason to believe the subject is not reputable (and being the independently wealthy governor of NY is not a sign of disrepute), and there is no obvious improper purpose (i.e. the transfers were not to the AQ Martyr’s Charity or something), you should be done. Because going further is investigating a person in search of a crime. That is no good.

I've been trying to phrase this for a while, but haven't been able to. Once it was clear that this was not money laundering, why did the investigation continue?

To amplify LWM's comment, not only is nobody arguing for that, the fact that prostitution is illegal creates these situations. The pimp couldn't be turning girls if there were legal agencies. She'd just say "Look, if I wanted to do that, I'd call up that number right there on the sign across from us."

You still don't get it.

The kind of street hustling this article talks about, with exploitive pimps looking to "turn out" young girls will never become legal. None of us are proposing that.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/13/opinion/13kristof.html?hp

It's titled "Do as He Said."

by Jeffrey A. Tucker

It's not enough that New York Governor Eliot Spitzer jailed Martha Stewart, banned trans fats in New York, harassed business within an inch of its life, and grafted onto just about every other left-fascist cause provided it was politically correct and increased his personal power.

It turns out that it was he who waged war on prostitution by going after not the suppliers but the demanders, through use of wiretaps, sting operations, money-laundering investigations, and extended jail terms. He completely agreed with those who believe all prostitution constitutes exploitation and so it is up to the state to crack skulls in the name of protecting the women who enter into this sector of their own volition.

In a twist of hypocrisy reminiscent of the prohibition era, Spitzer himself has been caught in one of his own sting operations, a full audio and paper trail of his having sought and used an online "escort service" for his own pleasure and at great expense. Next it will be revealed that he eats trans fats and subscribes to MARTHA.

At the behest of hysterical activist groups, he has been prosecuting sex-trade rings for years. He called prostitution "modern-day slavery." His law – which makes no distinction between human trafficking from far-off lands and traditional prostitution – prosecuting men who hire prostitutes came into effect in November 1, 2006. And yet he is said to have shelled out as much as $80,000 for prostitution services, and it was his attempting to drum up another $4,000 in cash that initially alerted the police to his activities.

An analogy might be for the nation's drug czar to be revealed as a regular customer of the Medillin Cartel, except that this one is even more stirring of public interest since it involves a subject of even greater public curiosity than drug use. ...

--------------------------

even more here:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/tucker/tucker94.html

I love it when a fascist on the left or on the right gets eaten by their own. It is sad that the misuse of the government by this monster will be punished by yet more misuse of government; but they were going to destroy someone for something anyway. Better this slop-jar.

I just got to reading some of the many posts that referred to my comments from last night. I can't begin to answer them all but I'll respond in general here.

1) To the poster known as Silenced: Your stance about the nexus between prostitution, a disordered (and illegal) behavior, and abuse is disturbing. First, it is not supported by research evidence. Let's be very clear about that. Secondly, from your post you seem to be upset that anyone would conclude that abuse can drive disordered behavior. At any rate that was my impression of your post. I can only state again that you need to do some study on the subject beyond your own experience. The research into prostitution overwhelmingly supports the conclusion that many prostitutes enter the field, so to speak, as an extension of their abuse. As we all know, childhood abuse is both deeply destructive and has long-lasting effects.

My own education and training is in working with special needs children so I don't work with adults. However, I have worked in the past with children with emotional and behavioral disorders. One strong predictor for these disorders is trauma/neglect/abuse and I have direct experience working with children from these specific backgrounds. They act out, many times in sexual ways and at startlingly young ages. With proper suppports and interventions, many of these children can make progress to lead productive lives. Did Kristen get that help? I haven't read that from statements she and her family have made. I do know that she ran from home to escape abuse as a teenager so I suspect that she did not get the help that she needed.

2. I have repeatedly defied anyone on this board to locate research that suggests that prostitutes are not troubled people who do not, in fact, "choose" prostitution. Most are apparently quite desperate to leave the profession. Please reference the information located today on the NY Times editorial page about Spitzer's own work to increase penalties for the "johns." We all have our own opinions but the research gives us a far clearer picture than our own specific experiences or perspectives can.

3. Please also look up on phillynews.com the archived story on Dawn's Place (past 12 months). The story is about a shelter in Philadelphia, Dawn's Place, that helps women leave the profession of prostitution. Within the article are many sources of information about what drives women into prostitution and the difficulty of them leaving the profession due to a host of emotional, behavioral and psychological factors.