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Wednesday, March 12, 2008 12:00 AM

Misadventures in logical reasoning -- and lessons learned from the Spitzer scandal

Nothing obliterates rational discourse like a titillating sex scandal.

The letters thread is now closed.

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Friday, March 14, 2008 04:57 PM

yep

It sort of makes my skin crawl to think that anybody would want to.

Big time. One particularly idiotic grotesque was arguing that prostitution was a solution for global poverty, there was nothing else 33% of the population could possibly do, and it wasn't even worth trying to educate them.

Friday, March 14, 2008 04:51 PM

I doubt that.

Spitzer's actions were far worse. He was the kinetic to Vitter's potential, he actually ruined lives over prostitution and did so while actively engaging in it. For all we know (although it is a provocative stretch to suggest, I admit) he celebrated putting away hookers and johns by renting a hotel room with a call girl and a bottle of Cristal.

Much as the press tries to sensationalize it, using the commercial services of a quasi-skanky Jersey girl and her cohorts a mere 8x over almost 2 years doesn't really smell of someone who had a long history engaging in commercial sex. Particularly when he was having to shuffle all his money around to hide it from wifie in such an amateurish way he was caught.

Seems to be a new occurance for Spitzer sometime well after his prostitution bustups that everyone is yailing "hypocrisy" about. And who knows why he suddenly started. It's almost as if he wanted to be caught though. Sometimes bright people do very self-destructive things.

Friday, March 14, 2008 04:14 PM

BUT BUT BUT...

HE HAD SEX...OUTSIDE OF MARRIAGE!!!! WHICH, AS WE ALL LEARNED FROM THE CLINTON SCANDAL, IS THE WORST THING YOU CAN POSSIBLY DO!!!...EVER!!...DUH!!! WHAT IS THE PROBLEM HERE?!!! HE CHEATED ON HIS WIFE!!! THE BEST THING WE CAN DO TO SPARE THE CHILDREN IS TO HAVE THE MEDIA REPORT ON IT EVERY SINGLE DAY UNTIL HIS LIFE IS RUINED!!! THAT IS THE ONLY WAY TO PROTECT OUR CHILDREN FROM THE EVIL INFLUENCES OF SEX!!!

THAT'S WHY I'M GLAD THAT WE NOW HAVE A MORAL PRESIDENT IN OFFICE THAT IS FAITHFUL TO HIS WIFE, BECAUSE THAT'S THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS!!!

Friday, March 14, 2008 02:22 PM

It's beyond hypocrisy

Glenn, excellent post as usual, and I agree with all your points (as they have been positions I have held for years, and I really liked the way you framed them). Perhaps it is nitpicking, but I take issue with the use of the term "hypocrisy" with regard to Spitzer's actions(as it seems to be the word of choice for most people commenting on the subject).

Prosecutors have power over people, with the ability to issue arrest warrants, to try, and--if successful--to imprison people. Imprisonment is a very significant event in a person's life; indeed, it is a seminal event that forever alters the course that a life will take. People who are imprisoned lose jobs, homes, money, in some cases friends. People they love can take ill or die while they are away. Marriages collapse. Childhood experiences and milestones will occur far from a person's gaze or experience, lost forever. The decision to imprison someone, therefore, is extremely important.

Taking away a person's freedom, potentially destroying their lives, and locking them away for many years is a prosecutor's job. It is an unpleasant role but a necessary one. That said, putting someone in jail for engaging in activity that you yourself also engage in is not hypocrisy, it is an act of deep moral depravity.

I came to this realization in trying to determine the source of my extreme disgust over the Spitzer revelations. I have no particular disdain for prostitution or those who participate in it, and generally consider these occasional revelations about public figures to be suspiciously overblown. In this case though, I felt (and feel) true revulsion. While the Vitter case was merely sordidly predictable, all Vitter was guilty of was hypocrisy--that is, he talked about values that were contrary to his nature and true self. And let's face it, these days that is so common on the right that it's more surprising to discover a culture warrior who actually walks the walk.

Spitzer's actions were far worse. He was the kinetic to Vitter's potential, he actually ruined lives over prostitution and did so while actively engaging in it. For all we know (although it is a provocative stretch to suggest, I admit) he celebrated putting away hookers and johns by renting a hotel room with a call girl and a bottle of Cristal.

The point is, prosecutors also have great leeway in their choice of cases to pursue, and he could have easily passed these cases to other prosecutors under him, or ignored them altogether. I cannot fathom the sheer sociopathy that must be required to look a man in the eye and send him to prison, knowing that the only legal and moral difference between you is at which table you sit in the courtroom.

It's pretty clear this was a hit job; I imagine as soon as he popped up on the Republican Political Threat radar he became a subject of the "terrorist surveillance program", and they wiretapped him unwarranted until they knew what to investigate the legal way and go get the wiretaps for. Unfortunately, that's an angle I doubt any reporter will ever think to pursue--at least no American reporter. However, the hit job was all too successful in revealing a disturbingly dark and corrupt side of the Crusader of Wall Street.

Friday, March 14, 2008 11:53 AM

The Real Immorality

His(Spitzer) biggest "sin" was of hypocrisy.

I wrote in my blog,immedately after this story broke, that THE REAL IMMORALITY is this Administration getting away with wiretapping, removing due process and habeas corpus, creating lies to justify an unnecessary war(Iraq), and allowing and encoraging use of torture. And a host of other stuff.

Thanks for pointing out some of the items I mentioned.

Peace

Lisa Allender

www.lisananetteallender.blogspot.com/

Friday, March 14, 2008 10:18 AM

Yes But...

"It isn't clear why the FBI sought the wiretap warrant. Federal prostitution probes are exceedingly rare, lawyers say, except in cases involving organized-crime leaders or child abuse. Federal wiretaps are seldom used to make these cases; search warrants usually suffice. Wiretap applications generally are reserved for serious crimes, such as drug, weapons and terrorism-related cases. There typically are no more than 1,400 wiretaps in use nationwide at any given time."

I would say that:

A) Being the Governor of the State pretty much makes him a "leader"

and

B) Making "Stacked" payments to shell corporations to hide and shield monetary transactions, and transactions that would otherwise have to be reported under ordinary banking regulations constitutes "Organized Crime"

Thus:

(A) + (B) = (C)

Leader + Organized Crime = Organized Crime Leader

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