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Wednesday, February 27, 2008 12:00 AM

Majority of Israelis want to negotiate with Hamas

A view that is deemed "anti-Israel" in the U.S. is actually held by most Israelis.

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Wednesday, February 27, 2008 05:45 PM

@drken

You need to scroll down a little. You're missing something big.

Wednesday, February 27, 2008 05:46 PM

drken

Hamas lets people fire rockets into Israel, knowing full well that people like Glenn will have no real problem with it because they're not very good rockets.

What is it about this topic that people believe, even more so than is normally the case, that they can attribute opinions to people that they haven't expressed?

I didn't say that I have no problem with Hamas rockets.

Israel responds with better rockets and ends up killing civilians who are near the launch sites because they know there's no real penalty for doing so because others feel those A-Rabs deserve it.

That's my point, which you missed. People on one side or the other will justify whatever killings their side does while believing that the other side's killings is the root of all evil.

I'm a big fan of yours Glenn, but in this case you're part of the problem

Definitely. If only I stopped writing, there would be peace there by now.

Wednesday, February 27, 2008 05:46 PM

@Paul Dirks

“The more energy one spends on recounting all the evil inherent in one's enemies, the less available for any sort of self-reflection. The mirror so distorts things that people fail to realize that they are viewing themselves.”

That is so insightful. I hope in my extreme disgust for the Busheviks that I have not gone so far as to see myself. I think you’ve described the pessimists and “fatalists” that post here. I subscribe to the Michael Jordan approach of using someone who is holding the upper hand for the moment, as motivation to give me extra energy and determination to rise above the next time. Those who are fully succumbing to the fun-house mirror are giving too much of their power over to someone that doesn’t deserve it.

Wednesday, February 27, 2008 05:57 PM

"part of the problem"

For the life of me, I can't decide if people are being cute or are really so stupid as to believe it when they say that for every complex, intractable problem in human society there are no greater (and no fewer) than two diametrically opposed positions one can take.

Either you're part of the solution or your part of the problem. Either you love the war or hate the troops. Either you want everyone to be spied on, all the time, or you want Osama bin Laden to cut your grandmother's head off.

It's as if, as a society, we got to the third grade, decided we liked it just fine, and outlawed nuance.

Wednesday, February 27, 2008 06:13 PM

P. Dirks

You definitely got a point. Its a hard balance, keeping vigilant and critical, while not becoming a shrill, reactive pukey-face. I fail on it alot, but I have to admit, I'm a pissed off person. Werking on that, too.

Wednesday, February 27, 2008 06:18 PM

The temples of ignorance and the fate of nations

Hard to explain, PDA, but not hard to characterize. Just four words will do the trick:

Thomas Jefferson. George Bush.

We'll know when the pendulum has started back when Pepperdine starts advertising courses with titles like:

Effective Management through Nuance.

or

The Role of Nuance in Successful Global Strategies.

Meanwhile we might just as well let the idiots drown in their own shit.

Wednesday, February 27, 2008 06:23 PM

Up Shite Creek Without A Paddle

William Timberman writes: "Meanwhile we might just as well let the idiots drown in their own shit."

Two problems with that.

Shit stinks.

We all seem to be on the same sinking boat, drowning, it would seem, in that extremely large, if shallow, sea of shit.

Wednesday, February 27, 2008 06:23 PM

@Glenn

Perhaps I oversimplified your view of the rockets from Gaza and for that I apologize. But, by including in your quote how few Israelis have been killed you've used a justification (or at least a mitigation) of Palestinian attacks I've heard all too often.

"They're just rocks" Can I hit you with one?

"They're just crude rockets" Try launching them at any country with a military and see what happens. You might find Israel is relatively restrained. Think Bashir Assad would put up with it? His Dad had no problem with wiping out an entire city, if I thought he actually ran the country instead of his Dad’s old friends, I'd predict Bashir wouldn’t hesitate to do the same thing.

Hamas will continue the rockets as long as nobody calls them on it. Of course, as long as Hamas keeps lobbing rockets over the border, or lets others do so while they cynically claim a cease fire, Israel is going to feel justified in non-proportional responses. Then, the far right in Israel gets to say "I told you this would happen if you withdrew from Gaza" thereby making it more difficult for Israel to talk to Hamas no matter how many of their people want them to. Hamas also gets to say "look at how those monsters murder innocent civilians". This of course, insures the conflict continues.

By all means Glenn, do not stop writing. Even if you are part of the problem, you’re a fairly minor part. Besides, on most other issues, you’re one of my favorite bloggers. But, just remember, while the US’s blank check to Israel is a huge problem in this conflict, the blank check written to the Palestinians by others is a huge part of it too. Start looking at the problem as one huge mess rather than two, and while it’s more depressing, things become a lot clearer.

Wednesday, February 27, 2008 06:23 PM

“Give me a break, please”

By David A. Harris

February 24, 2008

Not a day passes that I don’t encounter another Israel-directed lecture on the imperative of peace.

Sometimes it comes from diplomats. Or from editorial writers. Or from columnists. Or from scholars. Or from human-rights groups.

Frankly, it makes my blood boil.

First, it assumes that Israel wants peace for itself less than others do.

Second, it displays an arrogance that what may not be immediately apparent to Israel is abundantly obvious to those on the outside sitting in their ministries, offices, ivory towers, or vacation spots.

And third, it reveals a lack of humility insofar as Israel, and Israel alone, will bear the consequences – and they could be calamitous – of any misguided actions.

Strikingly, many of these commentators have never been to Israel, or have visited infrequently, or visit, but only in the company of those who share the same ideological predisposition. For instance, an individual appointed to head up a U.S.-based Arab-Israeli peace group had never set foot in Israel before assuming the position.

I know of no people on earth that has prayed for peace longer than the Jewish people. Turning “swords into plowshares” and “spears into pruning hooks,” and visualizing a day when the lion and lamb would lie down – and wake up – together weren’t conceived as slogans on Madison Avenue; they’re the Jewish people’s age-old contribution to civilization.

I know of no nation on earth that yearns for peace more than Israel, no nation, victorious in unsought wars, that has been more generous in yielding to its vanquished foes’ terms in pursuit of peace, and no nation that has taken more demonstrated – and tangible – risks for the sake of peace than Israel.

To think otherwise is to assume that Israel would prefer a state of permanent conflict, and that, quite frankly, would be preposterous.

Of course, there are debates within Israel about the best way to arrive at peace. How could it be otherwise? There is no surefire plan for getting from here to there in the topsy-turvy Middle East. Six decades of Israel’s existence have amply demonstrated the challenges.

But can any well-intentioned person truly believe that the Jewish people, resettled in the land of their ancestors after centuries of violence, persecution, and stigmatization, would seek anything other than a long-denied tranquility and peaceful coexistence with its neighbors?

Or that survivors of the Shoah who were able to reach the shores of Israel, despite innumerable obstacles, would welcome decade after decade of ever-present conflict and danger?

Or that Israel’s residents, whether settled in the country for generations or newcomers fleeing the intolerance of the Arab world or the oppression of Communist regimes, would seek a state of endless war?

Or that Israeli parents would wish to see their children, and then their grandchildren, and then their great-grandchildren go off to war, perhaps never to return?

Or that Israelis would welcome the daily barrage of rocket and mortar attacks raining down on Sderot and creating havoc in the daily lives of those trying to do nothing other than ride the roller coaster of everyday life? Or derive joy from the fact that all the children of this working-class town suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder?

Or that Israelis in the north would eagerly anticipate another barrage of Hezbollah-fired missiles from Lebanon targeted at anyone and everyone?

Or that Israelis would luxuriate in the knowledge that there is risk of a terrorist attack even in the simple act of riding a public bus, dancing in a discotheque, eating in a pizzeria, or attending a university?

Or that Israelis would relish the honor of being among the world’s most highly taxed people because of the sustained burden of defense spending to ensure a qualitative edge over the forces of its adversaries?

Or that Israelis would derive pride from being shunted off to the far corners of international airports, where they’re surrounded by heavily armed guards, for the simple pleasure of boarding planes destined for Tel Aviv?

Or that Israelis would take their cue from Hamas and Hezbollah leaders who propagate a culture of death and mayhem, when, in reality, Israel and the Jewish people have made an art form of celebrating life and seeking its enhancement?

No, the Israel I know desperately seeks peace. Israel’s Declaration of Independence expressed it. The Israeli concessions for the Egyptian and Jordanian peace accords showed it. The withdrawals from Gaza and Southern Lebanon proved it. The efforts by successive Israeli governments to reach a viable two-state settlement with the Palestinians continue to underscore it. The polls consistently demonstrate it.

But those armchair commentators too often fail to grasp Israel’s objective challenges in finding trustworthy partners. Instead, they’ve made a cottage industry out of ignoring, denying, minimizing, rationalizing, contextualizing, or trivializing the obstacles Israel has faced.

It’s almost as if Hezbollah’s blood-curdling cries to destroy Israel and the Jews, Hamas’s aim of replacing all of Israel with an Islamic state, Iran’s objective of a world without Israel, Syria’s hospitality to all the leading terrorist groups in the region, and the teaching of incitement and contempt in Palestinian textbooks don’t count for anything. Instead, they’re simply seen as pesky, off-subject debating points by pro-Israel supporters.

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